A Common Difficult Spot PART - I
Posted by Ugur Ozgur Secılmıs
Posted by
Ugur Ozgur Secılmıs
posted in
Mid Stakes
A Common Difficult Spot PART - I
Hero opens with AsQs 3bb from utg and agg good reg calls from button other one else folds.[eff stack:100bb]
flop comes : JdTd6c
Hero ?
Im really suspicious if there is a way to play this hand + EV. Pls tell about your future move like if u cbet on which turns you continue barreling or x/c or x/f and for the river.
Loading 19 Comments...
Pretty sure it´s a check-fold (unless Villain bets small like 1/2 pot). cbetting lets you enter a world of pain, no matter what happens (unless Villain folds which will happen very, very rarely), as well does checking with the intention of raising. x/c is bad either, because you only got 3 clean outs and a bunch of suspicious ones.
That said, I´d check with almost my entire range on this flop and then decide between x/c and x/r, but you got enough hands in your range that can continue so it´s no problem to just muck AQ in case Villain puts out a solid bet.
I have no problem with a x/f here vs a good reg aggro because he will be able to raise a really big part of his range, either nuts: set, TJs or semibluff: monsterdraw, GS and he will have a lot of one pair hand that gonna call and we will be lost turn.
Thought, if villain have a very low cold call and a really low vpip/pfr gap (+ a decent fold to cbet) I will just go ahead and Cbet because a big part of his range will be PP that he can't call. It would be even better if villain is a big 3better and that I'm sure a can discount almost always hands like JJ, AQs, QKs for example.
Uh, I completely disagree with the fish and easy.
It's not an awesome spot to c-bet because it hits Villians range fairly well, but you'll still get him to fold 22-55/77-99, maybe AQ, and you can barrel him off hands like T9 or QJs on later streets.
With two (not always clean) overs, a gutshot, initiative, BDFD and nice barrel cards, I don't see any reason to not c-bet.
Don't like a c/c because Villians betting range is pretty polarized between stronger made hands, bluffs and draws. I expect him to check back T9 or 88 almost always.
And because your outs can be dirty.
C/r is kinda cool here, but I'd want to know Villian stabs a lot. We can credibly rep JJ/TT/JTs/66, some draws. Probably a better spot to c/r if there's a FD on board, where you have more semi-bluffs, and Villian might stab lighter because he wants protection.
Villain won´t bet with 22-99, so you likely won´t win / lose anything by checking. But betting and barreling blank turns is just dangerous against any competent reg.
You don't need to 3-barrel here every time, but Villian simply can't defend hands like T9 to too much pressure here, and he'll fold hands like 22-99.
i disagree with that its the only and last chance for villian win the pot with any SPP by betting. Also he could turn his hand into bluff vs our weak "check" action. By checking we tell him we are going to loose the pot most of the time by "action language". I know it is not good spot bluff with hands without playability and much equity but we create a nice bluff spot by checking for our opponent unless we check raise.
Yes, it is.
If you check twice and bet a blank river, he won't fold a T, and he'll never fold a J.
If you bet and keep your range uncapped, you can get him off most of his flop made hands if your line is credible.
I´m pretty sure you´re owning yourself pretty hard while trying to get him off Jx / Tx ... but let´s agree on disagreeing on this one. :)
No way most people call down Tx there against a triple barrel on most run outs.
And you block a bunch of AJ/AT etc., have a gutshot to the nuts, and two overs.
I really don't see any way we should ever c/f this flop.
"No way most people call down Tx there against a triple barrel on most run outs."
That was not what I meant, I mean that you´ll own yourself against the rest of his range ... the overall EV of cbetting seems negative to me (against most good players).
hmmm, i am prefering cbeting too against all options ...
i much rather xf 22-99 and so on then this hand in that spot!
this is one of the worse spot to create a x/c range. We are too vulnerable vs bettings. We narrow our options to x/f , x/r and cbet. Whenever we check raise we want to rep nutz and balancing with hands not worth to x/c. Whenever we check raise we cant rep much value hand combos and most of the turn cards wont help our x/r bluff range. So i think we should focus on cbet or x/f lines. Cbet sounds like simple and solid but turn and river play is so complex. And also rake effect makes x/f attractive.
+1 for c/f flop
You have pretty good equity against the hands that would fold to a cbet, and they basically all check back anyway. The hands that he's continuing with pretty much smash you. Your only outs that don't have RIO (lolz) are the 3 non-diamond K's, and pretty much every other card sucks for you.
why does everyone assume that 22-99 check back and therefore we can win the pot later, and why also are we assuming, that everyone calls every PP here pre
I am curious. Everyone who wants to x/f this Flop, what is your bluffing range here? We certainly are not barreling with no equity hands like 55. If you are only "bluff" cbetting with KQ,98 and then bet all overpairs, tptk, sets for value/protection, this will leave your betting range incredible unbalanced.
Of course we could just check (almost) our entire range here like BigFiszh suggested but this seems counter intuitive to me when we presumably have the stronger range here? (maybe not true.. I haven't checked and this obviously depends on the exact ranges)
excellent post, wondering if you could elaborate on "this will leave your betting range incredibly unbalanced"
i plugged a 15% opening range and the cbet range you cited comes to about 40%, where the composition is 3:2 value:draw equity (if we count top pair as "value" here).
im not too familiar with the specifics of balancing a range on a flop especially when examining the situation from a one-sided perspective just looking at hero's range. not sure how much work is involved to explain but would love some incite on how we can observe the imbalance in this cbetting range.
tyty
Just put yourself in your opponent's shoes. He should even fold KJ on the Flop against our bet. He has around ~30% equity but will fail to realize it on future streets because we can continue betting with our strong range.
There is no easy answer how to balance our range on the Flop. Our Value:Bluff ratio should probably be somewhere between 1:1 and 1:2.5 depending on the equity of our bluffs/semi-bluffs and the polarization of our range.
A tight MP-coldcalling-range should be a significant favorite over a 16-17% UTG-open-range on this flop. Hero´s "nut-range" is rather small, it´s essentially 66, TT, JJ, JTs - not even AA is a huge hand on this flop. That makes 12 (!) combos of 189 and once you bet with all AQ-combos you already have more bluffs in your range than nut-combos.
Be the first to add a comment