5/10 Live NLHE Bellagio
Posted by steam_rice65
Posted by
steam_rice65
posted in
Mid Stakes
5/10 Live NLHE Bellagio
BT (Villain: A very good LAG - $1500) opens to 30
SB (Straight forward TAG - $1000) calls
BB (Hero - $1000) 3-bet to $100 with Ac8c.
BT calls, SB folds.
Flop: Qc8h3c. Hero c-bets 140. BT calls.
Turn: 3d. Hero checks. BT bets 170. Hero c-raises 460. BT shoves. Hero calls.
River: 6h. BT wins with QdTd.
My thoughts:
Pre Flop: Flatting OOP against a good player is not profitable as we're going to miss the flop so many times. Yet our hand is good enough to beat his opening range on the BT. Hence, the 3-bet.
Flop: I hit the flop hard and decided to play like a flopped set or an over pair. I am not a huge proponent of c-raising the flop with value hands so I decided to c-bet.
Turn: I thought a c/r in this spot would look super strong. I was confident that the BT would bet his entire range in this spot if checked to him. He would bet any of his value hands, flush/straight draws and random floats.
After he shoves, we have to call.
Me and a friend of mine who was also at the table had a heated discussion about this hand and he criticized my line. So here I am, trying to get a professional opinion.
Questions:
1. From the BT's perspective, based on my line. what does my range consist of? Obviously worse than QT, since he shoved on the turn. Even my friend said that my line wasn't consistent with my value range, which I don't agree with. I would c/r the turn with AA,KK,QQ,88 and AQ about half the time.
2. Is triple barreling a better line in this spot?
3. Which line looks the strongest and gets us the most fold equity?
Loading 12 Comments...
1. Your range should be AQ+, or AK/air that is spewing. You can't count on players to make big laydowns. That why you got caught here.
2. Yes - if you don't want to C/R the flop, or C/C the turn.
3. If you want the most fold equity, I would C/R flop then jam turn (for a pot sized bet if you set it up properly), or bet bet bet is just as good, downside is you might have to stone cold bluff the rest of your chips to win it, as with the C/R, you have good equity when you make you're AI move.
I disagree with one thing, I don't think he will bet his entire range on the turn. His range should include, 99-JJ, an 8, two clubs and AQ+. Lets just disregard QQ, 88 and 33 because they are literally negligeable here (3 pairing, QQ 4betting, you hold an 8). Its unlikely that a float exists here, but we can mix in that in anyways. I think he will only bet clubs (unlikely that he has those because you have 2 of 'em, and since the Qc is on board, that leaves less playable club hands) and AQ+, and floats. I think he will probably chk back the rest. I feel that AQ+, floats and clubs << JJ-99, QK/QJ/QT/Q9, 8X. Just add up the combos (taking into account that he is flatting a sqz, and you say he's a good lag) and it becomes obvious.
I don't think your play is bad, just most players won't bet/fold a hand like top pair in a 3bet pot on the turn in this situation. If they were gonna B/F, they would've probably checked back. When the bottom card pairs, there's no worse card that could bring your FE on the turn any lower. What you have going for you, is your 3bet sqz and cbet aggression, and a solid 31% equity. Continue to put pressure on him by betting the turn and reduce his range to only a Q. If a club or 8 pops off, you'll probably get paid. You're turn C/R would be better suited if you were deeper, say 150-200BBs. You would have more maneovering room, you're blocking middle set and bottom pair paired, so its extremely unlikely that you'd be C/Ring into a monster as queens still might've gotten it in pre flop. With more chips behind to lose, you're opponent might have B/Fed his hand on the turn and your play would have worked.
Also, a sqz can be done anytime with any hand, but is usually best with blockers. But just to let you know, A8s is a decend hand vs. almost anyone opening the button (they're raising weak cards there!), and 3way this an even better spot to play the hand. Personally, I would flat this A8s all day long, and 3bet/sqz the A8o. Sqz bigger if you want the pre flop play to work btw...
Any suggestions on what size to make it here when 3 betting hands? i would make it like 145, to win the $70 in the middle. Its really hard to defend much 100bb's deep when you have to put in 15% of effective stacks preflop. This is why people are suggesting to polarize your range here and do it with premiums and rags.
Secondly, this flop tends to hit BTN's squeeze-call range well. Thus, I'm not going to have a super high CB% on it. It will be very polarized between hands that are very strong, and hands that don't do well but may have backdoor equity and/or blockers (and would otherwise have to chk/fold). My checking range is going to be pretty wide and thus I'm going to want to protect it. This is the NUT hand for protecting that range given that it has some decent SD equity, and it obviously can improve to the nuts (that will also be deceptive). So yeah, I'm chk/calling this flop all day.
As played, I don't like your play. Unless your opponent is extremely weak-minded and bets the turn without much thought about what he will do against a CR, you're simply just getting a ton of chips in against a range that has you beat. Sure, he'll bet/fold sometimes. But of those times, you might as well have chk/called because you likely would have won the pot anyways (and/or even won more money given that he likely would have bluffed all the wrong cards that you're calling river on). The only situation that's good for you is when he bet/calls it off with a dominated draw but I think a lot of those (if not all) raise flop plus they'll be a small portion of his range to begin with given that his range for seeing the flop is pretty wide.
also do you still like c/c flop with these stack sizes if you elected to 3 bet?
Yes I'm chk/calling flop after squeezing.
@Lefort, you're doing a great job here. I'll def be following this forum.
flop raise) especially against a good LAG. Not to mention the villain will feel weird just calling such a small bet with a somewhat vulnerable hand. This line also gives you maximum fold equity, if he just calls we can bet the turn small again and then either bomb the river or shove over his turn raise.
Sure, this hand might be played for better value in a vacuum as a bet/3bet (although that's up for debate). But what players don't realize is that bet/3betting instead of chk/calling it can immediately and drastically lower the value of many of your other holdings in this spot such as {weak QX, JJ-99, 8X}. If you're bluff-catching range is never getting to showdown but instead just bleeding chips along the way against an aggro player in position, it doesn't matter how much money you're making with Ac8c here by betting because you're getting crushed overall in this spot.
you've opened up yourself to the CR/shove by the V on the turn when he realizes you are probably on an F draw or AK spew.
the pre flop raise(as is flatting) and the Cbet are perfectly fine.
better luck next time.
I'm constructing my flop strategy for how to play this situation of range vs. range (estimated villain's range) with an appreciation of the board texture and how it develops relative range vs. range strength. That has me playing a strategy that's not CBing relentlessly (because we no longer have a large range vs. range advantage given the board texture) which means I need to be cognizant of my chking range. Next thought process, what is my read on villain and how does that impact things? If he was extremely straightforward and made it easy on me to get to showdown with my chk/{bluffcatch} range, I'm not too concerned about making sure it's balanced. In that case, I'd be more concerned about optimizing my CB range. However, read is that villain is a "very good LAG". This implies that he understands the board texture and relative range vs. range situation and thus will be inclined to put a ton of pressure on your flop checking range, and most especially, your flop chk/calling range. So what do I want to absolutely make sure that I can do? Check/call more than a street or two fairly often. So set up some rough idea of ranges and what hands do well as chk/calls and such and voila, we see that we're holding A8cc (which at this point is fairly irrelevant, what's important is our overall strategy for the situation). And that falls in the chk/call flop bin.
Also, the times that you chk/call three streets when he barrels off with K-high and you turn or river the nuts will make you second guess what line you thought had the most value in a vacuum.
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