50z - Fold overpair in 4bet pot?
Posted by Poncheezied
Posted by
Poncheezied
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Low Stakes
50z - Fold overpair in 4bet pot?
https://www.weaktight.com/h/5d002ca0d390435f5c8b4742
Honestly I'm so lost in these spots.Villain is a reg, I don't think we can comfortably get it in pre, maybe we can if he's 4bet bluffing enough? And post flop I just get wrecked unless I flop the Q.
Feel bad about this, gonna post another similar spot pre also.
Thanks a lot guys
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He is in position, yet he makes that 4bet absurdly big... Its tough, but I'm folding there, maybe sometimes shoves against known agressive 4bettors, I would never call there against that huge raise.
Why do you call the 4 bet with QQ if you fold to a flop bet ?
Most players will bet the flop almost 100% of the time after a 4 bet.
Call flop
would go all-in preflop, if he has AA/KK I'm gonna get stacked off quite frequently anyway. I don't like jamming pre though, but calling and playing big pot OOP isn't great either. We are basically picking from 2 bad EV decisions
No idea what villain 4betting for this size, but if he is having some % of the bluff our shove should be good. If you are playing against 19/15 type of guys( wiht over 60% fold vs 3bet) I just fold vs 4bet
Just checking his stats which I don't have in game because it's a no HUD site. He is running 23/18 with 36% fold to 3b after raising and a 4b of 19 which is 4 out of 21. Total sample is 840 hands which isn't too bad.
3 of those 4, 4bets came from EP and MP so could just be big hands though.
I think it's interesting that everyone has a different opinion on this spot. Like some say stack pre, some say fold pre, some say call and call flop. Surely if it's this close then it's not that important, or is it?
If i'm systematically ploughing QQ into AA/KK when I don't need to then that's going to be a big leak over time.
No hud site explains it more. That pre sizing might be used as bluff and now what you continue only with AA/KK (that's less than 1% of the range) while you 3betting maybe 5-8%, so he just printing money. Shoving QQ prevents him for doing it and after we can make a note (if he folded means he had bluff, AKo likely obligated to call with those pot odds our shove) if he shows AA we can write it and text time see same size reevaluate situation.
Jeff_ thanks a lot man. So you actually think he's trying to exploit pretty hard here. Fwiw I think a lot of the regs are using huds illegally, they have this timing that feels a lot like them checking stats in these kinda spots.
No i don't think that he is trying to exploit this way(too advance and weird exploit, if he knows that vs small 4bet you aren't folding but making it few blinds bigger and suddenly you folding range jumping up a lot, then it is good exploit). Just saying that it might be the case sometimes. Need to check population tendencies.
In general, I think you want to get in QQ preflop when 100BB deep. If you're deeper, sure, you can flat and play conservatively.
The point is that after the 4-bet, he has to call with AK (too good of odds). So you're going to get calls from worse if you jam. In fact, if you're jamming QQ+, AK, he's almost getting odds to call with JJ (not quite, including rake, but it's close).
If he folds out some random Ace-high bluff, that's fine for you as well.
Also, by jamming QQ, you prevent yourself from getting exploited. If you only jam with KK+, that's an extremely narrow range. If you had some solid read that Villain is always nutted here, you can get away with it, but in general, you want to avoid this sort of situation.
If you are lost in these spots Id suggest doing some HEM2 work and look at 3bet pots UTG v SB/BB, filtering for sd so that you can really get a flavour for the types of ranges you will be up against - youd be surprised at how tight it will be.
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