50nl zoom. Can I vbet river here?

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50nl zoom. Can I vbet river here?

BN: $79.83
SB: $58.33
BB: $102.87
UTG: $61.64
HJ: $47.14
CO: $52.83 (Hero)
Preflop ($0.75) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt Q K
UTG folds, HJ folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BN folds, SB folds, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $3.25
Flop ($9.75) 2 8 3 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4
Turn ($17.75) 2 8 3 K (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $11.36, BB calls $11.36
River ($40.47) 2 8 3 K 6 (2 Players)
BB checks

Villain seems quite good, bit laggy, very small sample though so not much to go on. Not sure if betting this river might be a bit too thin because i really can't have many bluffs at all in my range.

11 Comments

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Steve Paul 10 years, 6 months ago

Yes bet. Given you stabbed flop with random broadways no backdoors I don't see why you can't have bluffs. I do agree that there are no obvious missed draws for you to use as bluffs, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be bluffing sometimes.

Jonas Smailys 10 years, 6 months ago

I'd prefer a turn check here tbh. We don't really have any bluffs that really WANT to be bluffing and we do have plenty of 99-JJ/QQ hands that I don't think are that great at vbetting anymore. As for the river I'd probably check. I guess once in a blue moon you get called by an 8x but I think it's more likely that villain will show up with AK/AA as infrequent as it might be.

SPrince 10 years, 6 months ago

Are you saying you`d prefer checking turn/betting river as main line, but as played you think checking river is better? Or just x/x. 

I like checking as played, but would bet turn myself.I think he might level himself into peeling one more with worse because it`s an over card and we`re expected to bluff it.

As played definitely agree checking river is better.

Jonas Smailys 10 years, 6 months ago

Im saying that people don't really have c/calling ranges on such board textures in this scenario. And if they do - it's smthing fairly polarised. And on such turn it might be so that we have 0% FE while valuetowning ourselves 100% of the time.

I'm definetely treating this hand as a 2 street value hand (if we include flop obv.) but I'm not too thrilled about it. I don't think it makes any difference whether we choose turn or river to get value in terms of how loose he calls but I do believe our other parts of range benefit quite a bit from x/backing this hand OTT.

TheRockyLobster 10 years, 6 months ago

We aren't expected to bluff it. It's a better card for his range than for ours. I think i do actually prefer a check on the turn and then either a call on the river if he bets or a bet if he checks again.

Ben C 10 years, 6 months ago

Is pf suppossedly standard here? going back to pf what do you think V is 3 betting you with pf and then cking flop with? In zoom I may even fold to a v 3! depending on tendencies bc you shld often be dominated by his 3 bet range. That being said post he played this like a passive AK type hand and I would prob just ck back rvr out of confusion for being slowplayed more than anything else

TheRockyLobster 10 years, 6 months ago

pf is standard for me, I have to defend this because i'm opening quite wide from the CO it's too far up my opening range to fold, if i folded this villain will most likely be auto profiting with his 3bets. Yes villain will have me dominated sometimes but i also dominate quite a lot of his Kxs that he is 3betting with. I also have position. I'm pretty sure at the time villains stats had him at around a 15-20% 3bet so this was always a defend. I'm all for folding this though pre if villain is a mega nit and i'm almost always going to be crushed.

Danshiel350 10 years, 6 months ago

The few times I've played around with CR-EV and looked at flop defending frequencies I will often need BDFD type hands to get to call flop and so I tend to defend with very few off-suit holdings. I migt be wrong here, but I'd rather defend with K10s, KJs than KQo.

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