4bet flop nuts, gets messy

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

4bet flop nuts, gets messy

SB: $0 (Hero)
BB: $229.92
HJ: $554.73
CO: $638.34
BN: $775.25
Preflop ($6.00) (4 Players)
Hero was dealt T A
Hero raises to $11.50, Hero raises to $33, Hero folds, Hero folds, Hero raises to $69.50, Hero calls $48
Flop ($168.00) Q T T (2 Players)
Hero bets $64, Hero calls $64
Turn ($296.00) 4 (2 Players)
Hero bets $148, Hero calls $148
River ($592.00) J (2 Players)

400nl, we are 4-handed, i am the 4-bettor CO v BTN

villain has turned up competent starting ranges so far, no other real reads


5 Comments

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erdian 10 years, 8 months ago

I was gonna answer but I think u posted it wrong. It stands that u have 0 starting chips and only hero is in the pot?

DanDanDanDan 10 years, 8 months ago

I guess you're OOP. Sorry for the brief reply without a load of explanation, but seems like a CF to me. Or at least a check/ call if sizing is small enough, fold otherwise. Also, assuming this is 400, you're too deep imo to 4bet this hand, it's just a nightmare postflop.

goranbaxy 10 years, 8 months ago

Doesn't matter what you do hero is going to win this hand :)


I have no idea how deep you are, I don't even understand what position you are, it says SB but you raise first, get 3bet and get few folds later

Koos 10 years, 8 months ago

I'm assuming this was CO (hero) versus BN (villain) with both players being ~150bb+ deep. 

I also do not like the 4bet. If you 4bet this hand you will likely have way too many 4bet bluffs.

On the river, you have already put in nearly half of your stack.  You beat multiple hands in villain's range (AA KK AQ KQ) but lose to several others (QQ AK).  Betting all-in or check-calling both have some merit. I do not check-fold this hand to an all-in from villain after checking.   

MrSneeze 10 years, 8 months ago

This hand reminds me of one I had played a year ago: http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/17-Mid-Stakes-Shorthanded-NL/topics/586131-NL600-4b-pot-150bb-deep?#post_5130091

IMO your 4bet is bad. I think ATo is probably one of the worst hand to do so CO vs BTN when deep. It would be good if you had a BTN never calling 4b, just 5betting or folding ; but nowadays everybody has learnt (and loves) to call 4bs IP. The sizing of your 4b is also so tiny that you're inviting peels, and you'll get raped postflop, being deep + wide range vs wide range (relatively speaking).

It feels to me that 4b's ranges from the CO vs BTN are usually too weak, and also they don't work enough. Can't comprehend why people still 4b super light CO vs BTN, when the best adjustment facing an aggro BTN is probably to open tighter (and do other wizard stuffs..). I mean, unless you totally own your opponent postflop, knows exactly his timings to bluff, whatever, then yeah, invite him to play postflop with you and get his monies. Usually won't be the case against good players obviously.

Would you flop the 'nuts' or not, I think this is a very unprofitable situation, and also an avoidable situation. As for me, the way you played the hand makes you very easy to play against, and to exploit.

As played, WTF@ your sizing postflop! you're deep against a player that will have a range connecting well with that flop, plz get some value. I would 4b bigger, I would C-bet bigger, I would like getting to the turn with a shoving situation, and then shove with a smile on my face. I think this makes you way tougher to play.

I have the instinct you'll justify your play with 'GTO', and well, if GTO dictates you should butcher your hands, then I'll pass on GTO and will keep making money :p. (no offense ;) )


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