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400NL Owned !!

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

400NL Owned !!

CO: $291.47
BN: $400
SB: $406.53
BB: $464.61 (Hero)
UTG: $584.52
HJ: $444.62
Preflop ($6.00) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt A 6
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN raises to $8, SB folds, Hero calls $4
Flop ($18.00) 3 5 A (2 Players)
Hero checks, BN bets $12, Hero calls $12
Turn ($42.00) 3 5 A 8 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BN bets $28, Hero calls $28
River ($98.00) 3 5 A 8 T (2 Players)
Hero checks, BN bets $64, Hero raises to $416.61, and is all in, BN calls $288, and is all in
Final Pot
Hero has A 6 BN has T A BN wins $799.20
Villain is one of the most actives players at the stake, i don´t feel he is very very good. But he doesn´t play autopilot, he´s a thinking player and he will fight for small-medium pots. He doesnt give me to much credit when i make raises on him, but this time i felt that the spot was too perfect to don´t do it.

What do you think about my jam ? What do you think about his call ?

And my main question is.. What has to be my adjustment for the future ? This hand should tell me a lot, he doesn´t care about how scary the board texture looks, he always gonna tend to call me. Valuebet thinner or just don´t bluff him ? I don´t have a single opponent who i can go for a raise in this kind of boards with other than Nuts/Bluff, would be he the first one ??

18 Comments

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nma 12 years ago
I mean, a backdoor flush came in... People don't give a lot of credit in this spot.. He has top 2 and it is unlikely that you played a set or a straight this way. I think finding a fold button here is pretty hard considering you're not repping much and top 2 is like the nuts... I don't hate your play because he's folding a lot of other Ax hands, however, you have to be aware that he is on the button and the board hits his range just as hard as it hits yours. I think he reps pretty strong here when he triple barrels so shoving in this spot might actually be a mistake. Also, you have to consider whether or not he is going to value bet AK,AJ,AQ,A9 etc, and what other hands he has in his range that he is folding to your shove, because it is very unlikely that he's bluffing.
R0b5ter 12 years ago
It better be unlikely that he's bluffing since shoving here if he is bluffing, is awful.
nma 12 years ago
It is unlikely that the villain is bluffing on this 3rd barrel... I'm not sure what you're referring to?
R0b5ter 12 years ago
You have the blocket to the nuts so I guess I like it but are you sure your A6 is always behind here? I mean he could be barelling since he may think you cant call many tripple barrels since yoo are pretty capped. His call I think is meh. You don't have many sets in your range so basically only flushes. That he has top two doesnt matter his hand is basically a bluff catcher so I guess it comes down to specific reads he may have on you.
nma 12 years ago
His call is fine... How many hands get there with a backdoor flush?
nma 12 years ago
and yes A6 is behind quite often on a triple barrel.. Unless he missed a draw and thinks you're folding an ace, which I think is a stretch.
BigFiszh 12 years ago
As mentioned, your rivershove entirely depends on his river-betting-frequency and how light he´s betting the river for value, but I think I like it a lot. You just got unlucky and I´m pretty sure he had folded AQ.

Not sure if he was aware of the fact that AT was essentially close to AJ in this spot, but AT has the additional value that it blocks TT and it is (or probably should be) within the top% of his barreling-range.
R0b5ter 12 years ago
Is hero really getting to the river with TT like this? But yeah like I said AT is basically a bluff catcher anyway so comes down to meta game. I can make a case that heros value range is so bluff heavy so when Villain chooses to call it off having a heart in his hand will mean a lot.
rjlynch 12 years ago
I'd rather just call the river and bluff something weaker than tp tbh, so much stuff missed that you don't need to be turning something this strong into a bluff
Juan Copani 12 years ago
I disagree with nma argument, you say that im repping a very short range. But what that cares ? I mean, what could i be bluffing ? 80% of players Mid-Stakes players just don´t understand how somebody could turn an A into a bluff, they just think that i would be just calling with them, why raise ?

Since the moment that he bet river $64 in a board where he perfectly could have a flush, and i even jam on him, he is forced to think that i have a flush here, no matter how short my flush combinations are, what other hand could i be creating a bluff with ?

And those flushes are 100% on my range. It´s just a matter of how wide would be my bluffing frecquency here.
nma 12 years ago
80% of players in mid-stakes dont understand that you could be turning your weak ace into a bluff?? If this was the case mid stakes games would be VERY profitable online. I think you're really under estimating the skill involved in 2/4 games online. If this was a live game, different story. It does matter that you are representing a very small range of hands because you're trying to make someone fold top 2 on a a BACKDOOR flush (especially when the main flush misses). This just isn't convincing enough for someone to go ahead and fold this hand. Ax, yes, but you have to think about whether or not he's betting one pair for value on that river in order for it to be profitable. Because if he's only v-betting 2 pair minimum, then you aren't going to get many folds. This would be a good play in PLO, but I think it's a stretch in NL
R0b5ter 12 years ago
I agree with juancopani. Nma I suppose you can agree that we will be playing a made flush like this? Sure there aren't that many combinations probably only AsXs. But since we in fact do have a value range then having a small bluffing range is required to be balanced and this is the perfect hand to do it with since we have the nut flush blocker. I don't see you mention the nut blocker anywhere and I think it's basically one of the most important aspects to consider in this spot.

When it comes to villains absolute hand value it really doesn't matter much if he has 2p or tp since Hero is repping a flush so in relative terms they are the same. What does it matter is if villain is bluffing or not and if he is then turning our tp into a bluff is bad. I do however agree in this spot it is probably less likely that he's bluffing.

You have me completely lost when you say that mid stake players don't understand the concept of turning a made hand into a bluff and then you continue to say that if they did games would be very profitable and that current online games are tough. You are contradicting yourself since if players do in fact understand that you can turn made hands into a bluff they are stronger players overall because they can read boards, opponents, situations and game flow better. OP said that this particular villain was a thinking active player so taking all this into account I totally understand Hero's shove here and I would play it the same way a majority of the time.
nma 12 years ago
I said they DO understand these dynamics. Also, regarding the nut blocker... It really doesn't matter. You think villain is folding any backdoor flush if he hits it? Having the nut blocker here is not as important as having it in PLO. What about missed heart flushes? Would you be pulling the same move when a backdoor flush comes instead? In this spot, if hero is capable, he may have several bluffs where it may be okay to call with top two. This is why I stressed that it is important to check villain's river betting frequencies in similar spots to see if he goes for thin value. If he doesn't, then it is very unlikely your bluff is going to work when he bets.
R0b5ter 12 years ago
Apologize for mixing that up. Anyhow you may be right but I'm sticking to my conclusions. Just have two last question for you nma. Do you have anything in your range you would C/R all in for value? Do you have anything in your range you would C/R bluff all in with?
nma 12 years ago
If I put villain on an ace I may c/r all in some missed draws here, only if I know villain knows how to triple barrel bluff and value bet thin (this way, he has some bluffs and some value hands that he will fold to shove.) Problem is, I don't get to the river with many strong hands (such as a set, 2 pair or straight) without raising previous streets. Because of this, we won't get much credit when we check shove the river, especially if he doesn't value bet too thin. This is why we really need to check his river betting frequencies to determine whether or not this is okay. Like I said, I don't mind his play but he has to also think of it from villain's perspective and count the amount of combos our hero gets to the river with a flush.. I mean in this spot, hero either has a flush or he has nothing... This turns Ax into a bluff catcher.. And even though as you say AQ and AJ are not much different from A 10, I think it's okay to keep A 10 in the bluff catching range while folding Ax for balancing purposes, as this near the top of his value range..


If the turn was a jack/queen/king instead of 8, and river was ten, I think it becomes a much better spot to bluff c/shove. Simply because you have a lot more hands that get to the river with combo draws that picked up equity and rivered a straight + all your backdoor flush combos.. (QK suited, J10 suited, Q10 suited, etc...)
where as on this run out, you either pretty much have the flush or you have nothing..
BRwniez 11 years, 11 months ago
The more I look at this the more I like, but feeling as if there's better textures to do this on, maybe turned flushes with nut blockers. Initial thoughts were; maybe overbet x/r turn and bomb river on a lot of cards, but I think we can fold out so much of villain's river barreling range with call down and jam - 2 pairs worse than A8 some of the time, AK, AQ for sure. If he's going for value with AJ, feeling a lot happier.

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