3bet pot flop x/r turn shove
Posted by grdd
Posted by
grdd
posted in
Low Stakes
3bet pot flop x/r turn shove
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25 (5 Players)
UTG: $25.57
CO: $25.35
BN: $41.94 (Hero)
SB: $25.82
BB: $27.00
CO: $25.35
BN: $41.94 (Hero)
SB: $25.82
BB: $27.00
Preflop
($0.35)
Hero is BN with
K
K
, , , ,
Flop
($3.59)
3
5
T
, , ,
Turn
($15.35)
3
5
T
7
,
Final Pot
CO wins $14.66
Rake is $0.69
Rake is $0.69
readless is my fold here good? I see villain mainly having sets, only real bluffs I'd imagine are AJ/AQ spades.
but I'm going through a rough patch and not 100% confident with alot of my decisions recently, some reassurance/criticism would help I think.
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Easy call. If you are good OTF, you are ahead OTT also. So it is either a crazy bet fold OTF or you go with it either by going all in yourself or calling down.
Calling 3bets oop with 33-55 is not that common amongst regs. Not to mention some some ppl play AT-QQ like this, and I wouldnt even consider it a bad play.
I disagree.
I also dont think that xR with QQ (let alone AT) is a good play with zero dynamics. Most players will quite literally fold all worse hands and jam all better hands imho.Since when do we assume that unknown villain is a reg? Let alone a reg who is good enough to start folding PPs to a 3b and at the same time be bad enough to actualy xr AT?
I think that folding here is not going to be punished and, in general, playing very conservatively vs raises is the way to go, until we see that villain abuses it. Seeing him raise 2/3 cbets in 3bpots is just slightly less telling as seeing one showdown (esp since that showdown can be TT, and thus tell us nothing) and a lot cheaper if we're wrong. Its not like folding here is ever a huge mistakes vs virtually any player pool, whereas calling down can be a 2out calldown vs sizable portion of player pools.
x/raising AT here beocmes a good play if villain starts folding KK :)
I do not like the PF raise size. Normally I like little less then small 3b IP but thats not the case here.
Yes it is true lots of regs do not keep 22-55 here but
BTvCO and when u made it 1.62 when he opens 0.62, I do not see any reg nor myself folding any PP. I'm getting 1 to 2.97 I'm defending all my PP here.
I do see some unk showing up ATs JJ in this spot, sets, and some hands raise flop w/ intention of open shoving turn, and also the hands that got equity improved OTT and chose to jam this way.
I gave villain JJ-TT,77,55,33,ATs,76s,Js9s,Js8s,9s8s,As4s,6s4s,As2s
Results are like this:
Equity Win Tie
CO 48.79% 48.79% 0.00% KsKc
BU 51.21% 51.21% 0.00% JJ-TT, 77, 55, 33, ATs, 76s, Js9s, Js8s, 9s8s, As4s, 6s4s, As2s
I gave him 6s4s but not ATo.
So either way; its pretty close. In game, I think I wud've called but folding seems very slightly better. I do not blame neither calling or folding in this spot.
I tried poker stoving a tight range for villain here and stacking off was really close to break even, or slightly +EV.
Having a blocker to the K of spades makes it kind of tricky, as it eliminates a lot of the potential flush draws he might have. This is 6 max not full ring and it being CO vs a button 3 bet makes me lean towards getting it in here.
...Definitely going to be seeing a set here a lot but people at the micros will show up with all sorts of things and even against a competent player you should be doing okay versus his overall range.
Yeah, he can overbet flush OTT. You have a spade blocker, but not the A.
With TT this scary overbet doesn't make sense.
...and you will have the info what he plays like that. If you use this info, this call is definitely value.
Standard call for me, as well, assuming he isn't the type of player to try to to take his over pairs to showdown. I guess if he's only raising sets and nut flush draws, than good fold.
If not, you're ahead of way too many hands, and people just love to put their opponents on AK. He's going to show up with AQss, AJss, QQ, and JJ often enough (assuming there isn't a dynamic where he 4bets these hands pre, CO vs BTN ). if you lose to TT or AA( i doubt he would flat AA), so be it. If you're not going to call it off on a non spade turn, Either Fold flop or Jam. As played, call turn.
Also, idk about villain, but set mining with 33, or 55, vs a button 3bet would be pretty bad since you should be 3 betting wider, which would remove his implied odds.
Just my opinion, i'm open to feedback.
QQ/JJ somehow passed me completely, looking at equities now i think this is a call, thought too much into the Ks blocker.
I'm bet/folding the flop. People aren't bluffraising these flops nearly enough. But if you call the flop you have to call the turn here because his bluffs didn't improve.
"if you call the flop, then you have to call a brick turn" is just so dangerously worded sentence and I wish that people stopped using that argument.
Flop and turn decisions are separate entities and are not connected in any way imo. Its very easy for newer players to take this advice too literally and compound their small flop mistake into a huge river blunder.
You're right but always calling flop and folding turn might be a bigger mistake than calling flop and turn because we will win the pot sometimes vs his bluffs while we never win if we fold.
+1 B/f flop.
what size raise pre flop would you say is better? didnt think much into odds BTN is getting
I'd make $1.9-2.1 here w/ all my values and bluffs(100ES). Cause thats the size I'll start defending normally if I'm the CO. Although I would want to know what other regs wud make.
I believe making $2-2.25 BTvsMP $0.75 open is solid and good.
Here, not so much.
I'm also bet/folding flop, readless. I also disagree that he can't have sets on this board, especially given your 3b sizing.
As played, the turn doesn't change anything, so it's a call ott imo.
Still, BF flop > BC flop - Call turn > BC flop - Fold turn
Your preflop sizing makes it close but assuming a more std 3x or slightly bigger 3bet I couldn't get away from this. Him flatting 55, 33 in this case OOP is just really bad and raising TT, let alone raising at all on this texture doesn't make too much sense to me either. I also think he can have enough QQ, JJ, AT or FDs in his range to where I don't wanna be folding what is pretty close to the top of my range here, especially not without any reads where he could still turn out to be a total drooler and b/gii 88 here.
Very easy call, you only lose to a set, top of your range etc
Sauce's back? (well, pun intended :p)
Bet/fold flop? And fold like 80% of your range? Guys, it's 2015...
Also, if we call the flop, we are NOT obligated to call turn (I would call this hand, but fold some weaker stuff).
Most people are advocating b/f readless, because people bluffraise not nearly enough at micro, but yeah, let's not kid ourselves that anyone would actually do it in-game. ;D
That is false nowadays imo, people do bluff.
I think it's crazy to make such assumptions with virtually no info and fold 80% of or range versus a flop raise, can't be good. Especially when villains "valuerange" can contain worse hands.
I said that they bluff less in general, not that they don't bluff at all. :D
Not sure about the worse hands in his value range, but yeah, might be.
But as you see - all this hand comes down to, is what we think about our opponent
(you can find justifications for each line - BF / BC-> fold turn / BC -> call turn).
i dont think so taaazz, if villian contains 3/3 and 5/5 in his range, we can also put his range a lot of spade's combo's and he could still have J/J and QQ, and given the pot odds 1 / 2,8 or something its a call.
@wizz:
You don't think so about which part exactly? :D
+1 on Samu. i do not see myself ever B/F OTF against almost anyone cept for the passive ones (in NL25z).
(as mentioned above) I think villain can have all sets along with wider bluffs.
haha iam sorrie taaazz ur right , i ment (you can find justifications for each line) i think the x/c line is def the best line here
regs and fun players, will almost never bet 3,5x raise turn with set when hero has a wide 3 bet range on button. to fold out all the 0 equity hands. some very tight fun players will, but very often both group of players wil not take this line.
regs - could playing some overcards with a flusch draw or just random flusch draws here to give him self an shove stack on turn.
fun players - could have J/J Q/q A/10 K/10 or who knows sometimes there just crazy.
so overall villians range contains alot more hands ur dominate then just sets.
so flop b/c is good, and on the turn its a easy call
I like how Sauce instantly changed dynamic of this conversation :D
Its really cool thing to stop and think if we are already in state of poker where we can give to random regs on microstakes enough weak hands to justify calldown vs. aggresion with our KK.
How you play on random turn spade tho? Like turn is 2s. It is fold now vs. any strong bet on turn? Do we call flop to check if turn is not A/spade and decide then?
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