3b oop question?
Posted by cbrewer4
Posted by
cbrewer4
posted in
Mid Stakes
3b oop question?
So been thinking about how to should proceed in deep stack NL preflop vs. competent lags/tags facing raises OOP. I'm thinking like 250bb+ deep situations in 6max/FR games. This is decently common in live games. If competent player opens IP this deep what type of 3b range are we trying to have here.
If we 3b value only (TT+,AK) we will get bent over backwards post due to being extremely capped post on most flops and OOP. But if we go wide we are now playing wide ranges OOP with very little fold equity preflop due to implied odds. Which obviously sucks.
Seems then like at a certain depth we should no longer 3b and simply play our hand under repped or start 3bing very wide/balanced (i hate this though because i don't want to play big pots OOP). Maybe I am overvaluing position but the deeper we get the less i think preflop value matters and the more position does. What type of range are you guys trying to use in these spots? Am i crazy for thinking that flatting whole range instead of 3bing could be more profitable?
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Narrow value range, go more polarized, Ak loses its value deep since you cannot justify many stackoffs pre/ just bet 3streets and A high boards.
How does polarizing help here? if he isn't folding pre I'm bloating a pot with a weak hand OOP and then I just barrel off 100%? seems so spewy deep
What? Nobody tells you to just barrel off with no reason. The key is playing a deceptive hand aggressivly which will get pay off more since people dont put you on it.
I'd like some more discussion on this as well. I'm a live player now but I go back and forth with my strategy really deep OOP. I think the only problem with a really narrow value range is that if you are only three betting the very top of your range, we aren't gonna have all that many bluffs, and will still probably be susceptible on a lot of boards. If we only three bet say QQ-AA and AK, and then add some suited connectors, that cant give us enough board coverage across all possible flops?
So meant to respond a while ago but I think you are way oversimplifying this disharmonist. If I narrow my value range I'm now so incredibly defined or so bluff heavy. Like if I just 3b JJ+ for value then bluffs I am so capped post flop on most flops and pretty defined. They are just going to call and play post in position (god help me if they 4b), unless i size so huge they never call light (this sucks for obvious reasons). Sure it sounds nice to say I play a hand deceptively post and get paid, but you don't hit hands that often in hold em and we will be stuck OOP. Like if i 3b my SCs i still miss or get bad flops a bunch. If flop comes K92r I basically have three hands that like this (only one of which wants to stack off) while V can have all sets, all kings, all gut shots etc. V has more good turns, he just ends up being able to punish me hard here. That' not even that bad of a flop either like we have so many that are way worse for us. I think deep the value of being undefined and uncapped in position is insane. That's why I'm thinking its actually more plus ev to just not 3b. If i flat whole range I'm so uncapped and can extract so much value by having overpairs he doesn't expect. He will be so much more likely to make a mistake either betting to thin, calling to light, or folding the best hand. Sure fundamentally my problem is the same I'm out of position, but at least I'm fixing one of the issues by leaving my range wide and undefined and limiting the size of the pot. I did have a friend who proposed the idea of 3bing wide with our entire deep EP opening range in these spots which is interesting, but seems spewy with hands like AQ or KQ.
Just make sure you 3b some sc and stuff for board coverage and don't just go blasting off w ak on 678
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