3 bet pot vs laggy player IP 200nl

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

3 bet pot vs laggy player IP 200nl

BB: $215
UTG: $200
HJ: $219.25
CO: $210.15
BN: $243.05 (Hero)
SB: $468.45
Preflop ($3.00) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt Q 8
UTG folds, CO folds, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $13, BB folds, Hero calls $9
Flop ($29.00) 4 J T (3 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $17, SB calls $17
Turn ($63.00) 4 J T 3 (3 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $48, SB calls $48
River ($159.00) 4 J T 3 2 (3 Players)
SB checks
Villains been playing a very aggro preflop game so far. 20ish% 3 bet sb vs button but not a hand sample to totally confirm it. Preflop ok? Figured with bit deeper stacks and he s giving a bit of a discount I could make a looser peel. Once he checks figured its not worth checking my gutter and its a pretty decent hand for my bluffing stabbing range. Also should be a board he s giving up on some. How far do we go after though on the turn or river?

8 Comments

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vitheltone 12 years, 2 months ago
I don't like preflop. Our hand flops a lot of dominated draws and pairs.

As played river looks like a bet, but we are getting looked up by hands like KcTx and J8 some of the time.

I also don't like how our flop and turn sizing changes. Yes, it sets up a river jam to bomb the turn but it also looks a little bluffy and will start to polarize our value betting range in villains eyes. If we just bet in the 50-66% pot range we can bet the same size on the river and it lets us really rep all the Jx better. We don't always have to be sizing up for stacks in 3b pots.
igotya 12 years, 2 months ago
I do think we have to size up for stacks in a 3b pot as long as it is possible anything else is suboptimal I would probably have a bigger flop sizing so I could maintain about the same percentage sizing on flop&turn.
igotya 12 years, 2 months ago
Preflop is standard vs a 20% 3b range but if you dont have a sample for it can be too loose. Flop is standard.

When villian goes c/c OTF he almost always have a madehand and you then have to decide whether you are going 3streets or you give up.

It would be nice if you added some more stats.

You have to make some assumptions:

- How often is he gonna be c/c Jx OTF (I would not assume he folds that).
- How often he has Tx (Tx is what you would aim to fold if you 3barrel).

Another thing to point out is that you probably dont have as many valuecombos in your perceived range as you actually have (I assume you flat all Axs when you flat Q8s.) Besides that you have a lot of go to bluffing combos in your perceived bluffing range "KQ&AQ" which usually is greenflag to calldown with a bluffcatcher for a loose guy.

Turn feels like a dreamspot to actually have a flush which makes me wanna shutdown at turn.
WM2K 12 years, 2 months ago
Ya ok thanks guys. Seems like I should unload sometimes but with a stronger draw so I m not so weighted towards bluffs. I would like to think that I would be unloading AJ and perhaps KJ though so I m not so polarized.
James Hudson 12 years, 2 months ago
Empty the clip most of the time here. He almost never has a flush, you can go for thinner value than just flushes, and he's likely unblanced to weakish bluffcatchers.
tozzy 12 years, 2 months ago
I guess the last part is important to notice - is villain ever showing up w JcXc or the likes, or is he really that unbalanced? I guess if you're playing against a range that consists only of bluffcatchers you could go ahead and build an optimal bluffingrange extrapolating from your valuerange.
James Hudson 12 years, 2 months ago
He probably should show up here with JcXc sometimes but most people are just auto cbetting that hand. When was the last time you remember getting called by Ac10x here?
WM2K 12 years, 2 months ago
Ya I think that including this hand in my bluffing range is likely to leave me exploitable. Q9s, and KQ is already 18 combos. I'll count it out and post the results. It'll be good practice. Does villain know I'm going to be exploitable is an important question to answer and I m really not sure.

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