3-Bet pot, AKs, tough turn spot vs reg
Posted by Myosotis
Posted by
Myosotis
posted in
Low Stakes
3-Bet pot, AKs, tough turn spot vs reg
SB: 57.11 (Hero)
BB: 269.04
CO: 50
BN: 82.63
BB: 269.04
CO: 50
BN: 82.63
Hero holds AKs (sorry I don't now why it's not showing)
I'm new to this € site. (it's a 5max table)
CO: ( €50.00 EUR ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 25, 3B: 13, AF: 4.1, Hands: 62
Hero: Seen as a reg not to much reads on me except i play around 26/21/7
I don't have to much info on villain posflop except his sizings are as clean as preflop for what I've seen.
I'm new to this € site. (it's a 5max table)
CO: ( €50.00 EUR ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 25, 3B: 13, AF: 4.1, Hands: 62
Hero: Seen as a reg not to much reads on me except i play around 26/21/7
I don't have to much info on villain posflop except his sizings are as clean as preflop for what I've seen.
Preflop
(0.75)
(4 Players)
CO raises to 1.50,
BN folds,
Hero raises to 5,
BB folds,
CO calls 3.50
This the first 3-Bet pot we play.
Flop
(10.75)
8
7
3
(2 Players)
Hero bets 6,
CO calls 6
With no spade on the flop, I think checking is the best option.
Even though it looks pretty weak or even face-up. If I Cbet here, it's because I decided to 3barrel on good turn & river to rep an overpair and to make him fold PP's or low/medium combo pairs. Unfortunately, I have no idea about his tendancies, will he call or not one of the Pair I would like him to fold?
I ended up C-betting...
Question 1:
Do you C-Bet here? if it's a mix, how often do you check and C-Bet? (optional: why)
Even though it looks pretty weak or even face-up. If I Cbet here, it's because I decided to 3barrel on good turn & river to rep an overpair and to make him fold PP's or low/medium combo pairs. Unfortunately, I have no idea about his tendancies, will he call or not one of the Pair I would like him to fold?
I ended up C-betting...
Question 1:
Do you C-Bet here? if it's a mix, how often do you check and C-Bet? (optional: why)
Turn
(22.75)
8
7
3
A
(2 Players)
Hero bets 15,
CO raises to 39, and is all in
When the Ace came on the turn, I decided I wasn't folding so I decided to bet big for value because I saw other regulars calling 2 barrels way too loose in 3-Bet pots when they have position. I think my sizing was bad here (may be to much exploitative based on not enough hands on the pool, and because I decided I was going to call)
Question 2:
Assuming you bet a more standard 12 and get raised all-in here. What do you think?
Question 2:
Assuming you bet a more standard 12 and get raised all-in here. What do you think?
I hope to read interesting answers and I will give you further toughts I had about this hand.
Loading 12 Comments...
The way I would difference AK is with suits. For example AKcc got more fire power since it will sometimes pick up great equity on the turn. I might check call for the same reason since we will get to showdown more often. A single Kd or Ad is a pretty big deal as well.
This board is in favour for our opponent range. Except for pocket pairs we dont have any value combos. Still I would be more afraid of going overboard on the turn. Its a common mistake that grinders rep over pair when both the flop and the turn is in favour of the opponent. Which is very unlikely if you still got all over cards in the range.
Still my standard is to cbet this board but I definitely mix it up
Question 2: AK is in the top of your range, standard should be to stack off here. AK would be an exploitive fold in this spot. If you are going to fold here he needs to be very unbalanced towards value, with no reads my stack is always going in.
I dont like your turn sizing, id just bet smaller because you are going to want to bluff smaller, and it also makes it easier for him to call you with 99 or whatever. As played given your betsize its tough because its really hard for you to be good here, he has to be overplaying AQ or just deciding to shove Axdd for whatever reason, but you are getting pretty good odds. I still think its prolly a fold because he has to be raising a lot of worse combos for you to have the equity to call
i think i check turn ,if he have draw he probably attack and you can x/raise again wider range than bet/call. and hand almost without outs (TT,JJ,QQ maybe KK(4betpre)) check and you can bet river and make some money
First of all thanks for the answers.
@stepitup
"AK would be an exploitive fold in this spot" It's the first 3-Bet pot pot we play, if I fold AK here, how can he exploit me knowing I fold AK since it will go to the muck.
Also : " AK is in the top of your range" Being in the top of our range doesn't mean it's an auto-stack off every time. In a few siuations, we need to re-evaluate if we really are in the top of our range according to his remaining range at a given street and action.
@ItsToothPasteISwear
"I dont like your turn sizing"
I already mentionned it and asked to answer as if my sizing was correct : "I think my sizing was bad here"
"Question 2:
Assuming you bet a more standard 12 and get raised all-in here. What do you think?"
I'd rather prefer you answering to question 1 and 2.
However : I agree with the range I might win against (also add combo draws willing to stack off turn like 9Tdd, JTdd etc... but it's not to likely, we don't know to much about his tendancies and neither does he about mine) and the fact that even if my 15 bet size which is dumb because gives me 4:1 and good odds to call. It's still a fold I will try to explain why
@Ondrej Rysavy
I didn't mention it but I think a check on the turn is fine, but I would say a slight portion of the time (no more than 20-25% for me). You want to be able to barrel this scare card with your bluffs, so you need to do it when you hit. Also nowedays, more and more tricky villains are checking the turn with there draws in position when cheking to them)
But again, I think we can choose to go for a check here.
I will try to tell why it's better to fold imo later.
"Also : " AK is in the top of your range" Being in the top of our range doesn't mean it's an auto-stack off every time. In a few siuations, we need to re-evaluate if we really in the top of our range according to his remaining range at a given street and action."
If we try to define his range when he raise on the turn. First of all, we need to give him a preflop range based on what we thinlk a 3bet call vs resteal could be for a 50NL reg (also add I've been a bit active).
Let's assign 12.37% and assume he calls 22-66/AA 50% of the time:
JJ-22, AQs-ATs, A5s-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, AQo, KQo
Now hands raising on the Turn (considering there's 0 pur bluff)
1- For Value that beats me: A3s AdAc 88 77 33 [1.66%]
2- For value/protection I beat: ~AQo/AQs
he will call more than he raise, and will not float every time so let's say 30% of his AQ so: [0.34%]
3- As a semi-buff: 67dd/87dd/89dd/9Tdd/TJdd/TQdd/JQdd/QKdd
He will often make a move on the flop or just call turn so let's say 40% : [0.48]
4- Playing bad: Axdd, AJo/AJs
he needs to be playing really bad to do this let's say 30%: [0.52]
By adding 2+3+4: 1.34%, which is less than the hands that have me beat (if my estimations are correct or close obviously)
I think it's time for me to finally buy CRev and start to make trees. Cheers.
you have to take card removal into account, as well as the equity vs each subgroup
I would x/c the flop because we don't have too many turn barrel cards.. 2 overcards is good enough equity to bluff catch the flop with.. And you need to defend enough of your checks, not necassarily to stop him from profiting betting ATC but you will be very exploitable if you only x/c strong hand that can't be outdrawn.
When the ace comes on turn I would x/c again because it's a scare card which means many good regs will barrel it and he could also value bet it with a worse A.
River I would probably x/c as well depending on how the spr looks like.
This is without any reads though, only knowing he is a reg.
If an A or K didn't come on turn I would x/f.
@ItsToothPasteISwear
"to take card removal into account": already done.
"equity vs each subgroup": I though it was obvious enough to see that AK draws dead against all the hands that already beats us except A3s, and that his draws add him equity, which strengthen his overall equity against us. But you are right, I had to do this with the equity results. A bit too much for me, who knows, next time.
@Bluff
I like that play too!
hm...XC sounds solid but maybe sort of unbalanced after a flopbet tbh....i guess XC flop and turn would make sense, but I would merge my turnbetting range after a flopbet.... i guess we have to bet the A often enough to balance our 3barrel bluffs in this spot (which should be a decent and frequently used weapon in our arsenal given the board structure)
Cool hand. As played I would fold the turn because you don't know enough about the player and a reraise all in here feels like it's begging to be called by AX.
I think this hand is much more complicated than it seems and you have to think more dynamically about it. What's happened on the table so far? Have you been caught c-betting and folding too much? What's your image? What's the villains float %? Does the villain over play the button? Or check too much? Without any knowledge of my opponent or my own table image I am c-betting 100% of the time here.
As far as the turn bet being OP sucks here, you check the flop and you will have to fold the turn if you miss and if you c-bet and hit your A or K your turn bet is not getting called by worse hands. For that reason, I would check the turn. You are not getting called here by very many worse hands. Not many players would re raise an A on the turn in a three bet and c-bet pot without 2 pair or better or a strong draw. So i don't think a total bluff is in his/her range.
That said I think the key to this hand is your knowledge of the villain and table history. I would snap call certain people here and snap fold to others. I might three barrel certain people or check call three streets to others.
happy calling turn as played, and you can mix up flop play depending on which suits you have with AK
@Benovi
" reraise all in here feels like it's begging to be called by AX. " Yeah I feel that too.
Thanks for your answer, I appreciated reading it.
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