[25NLz] Facing a pot turn bet

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[25NLz] Facing a pot turn bet

Blinds: $0.10/$0.25 (6 Players) BN: $25.02
SB: $27.37
BB: $50.20 (Hero)
UTG: $24.50
MP: $28.32
CO: $20.72
Preflop ($0.35) Hero is BB with J J
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.65, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, MP calls $1.60
Flop ($4.60) A 6 7
Hero checks, MP checks
Turn ($4.60) A 6 7 7
Hero checks, MP bets $4.00, Hero folds

I don't have a lot of comments, just unsure on how to approach this spot.

9 Comments

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akissv7 6 years, 1 month ago

One option is to lead out on the flop as you have a range advantage here. The villain typically has less AK, AA in his range then you might have. On this type of board I typically will bet flop for 1/3-1/2 pot check/fold turn and check/call river when the turn is checked through.

On the turn without any specific info I would fold as I hate being in this spot OOP and the river still to come.

Jeff_ 6 years ago

BB 3bettting range vary from player to player. ''Default one'' is quite tight, so on this board we have range advantage and bet close to range for small size. checking probably equal EV.
On the turn we of course checking, and vs close to pot size bet we need to defend ~50% of our range. I don't know how your range constructed but you can't fold all of your TT-KK, otherwise you folding frequency should reach 75% and more. And I'm not talking gto, imagine villian has any Broadway and decided to stab? or T9 or 22?.....

cg15254 6 years ago

I'd Cbet entire range small on the flop and check fold turn. As played turn is a fold.

belrio42 6 years ago

What's your range to 3-bet pre? I'm assuming something like 7% of hands.

88+, ATs+, KdQd, KhQh, Ad9d, Ah9h, Ad8d, Ah8h, Ad7d, Ah7h, Ad6d, Ah6h, Ad5d, Ah5h, Ad4d, Ah4h, Ad3d, Ah3h, Ad2d, Ah2h, AKo, AdQc, AhQc, AsQc, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs

I think flop play is fine. Checking and betting small are both fine.

What's your range to check twice? Something like
KK-88,AhAs,AhAc,AsAc,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h
43 combos

If you fold JJ, then your calling range is
KK-QQ, AhAs, AhAc, AsAc, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h

or 19 combos.

I'm not sure if you're checking the weak aces twice, so your range might be even weaker.

As played, I would call turn. If you're folding JJ, you're folding way too much.

Yes, you're not happy about calling JJ, but you still need to call otherwise you'll get run over. If you have a super-strong read that the villain is never bluffing or value-betting worse and always value-betting better (typically not the case in Zoom), you can fold.

Also, you don't need to call the river always. If he bombs the river, you can fold.

hnsmht 6 years ago

Tough spot bro. Even discounting AQ+ and AA because he didn't 4bet, I still don't like calling turn because we go into river with 50bb pot OOP and most rivers won't help us. The villain's flop check is really fishy though... I think on the turn he's only repping trips or flush draw...in the heat of the moment I might have called turn and regret river lol

TruthS33ka 6 years ago

Disclaimer: I am on the nitty side
In this spot I would check Villain's aggression in general. It would be really tough to face a river shove and then guess. TBH, even if we fold the vast majority of the our range here, probably at this stake is the best action. If Villain is superaggro and plan to call turn a fold river you are burining money imho.

I can see why Jeff_ suggest to call but this doesn't take into consideration how many shitty turns we would see. Also, we aren't happy to see a total blank also...

dayung 6 years ago

Betting range otf makes a lot of sense considering our range and villains range. We are more Ax heavy, AK, AQ, some AJ, AA, and suited Ax. So we can happily bet 1/3 and fold to a reraise. We get value from all the pp 88-TT and minimize our loss against 66,77 and the AK, AQ, AJ, Ax suited that villain decide to defend and not 4bet. Villain could be calling with suited hands like QKdd, QTdd, T9dd, all the 98s, 87s, 76s and fold out all the other T9s, QJs, QKs, combos . I think betting range for value and protection makes sense. Checking would be a blunder I believe, because it allows villain to maximize his EV with his Top pairs.

I do get lost on the turn what strategies will we play on different turn cards? All villains air gets folded out otf, so do we bet polarized ott? Checking our weaker Ax hands like AJ and suited aced QQ, JJ, TT. Villain has a lot of natural bluffs, so from a MDF standpoint do we need to call turn and river with all strong pairs on brick turns and rivers?

akissv7 6 years ago

Balancing MDF is an art and you need to be aware that MDF is not for a specific hand for your whole range and for all possible turn/river cards. So if you end up with nothing on the turn because you where (semi)bluffing the flop it can be good to just (over)fold all your junk.
Btw not all villains hands are top hands he still can have a hand like KK,QQ and Ax with a low card 89 etc.
Normally you will bet any hand that has enough outs and most of your made hands.
It also depends if you want to have a check/calling range with monsters in them or not or if you want to have a check raising range.
Also be aware that this also depends on the villain if hes a calling station you obviously value bet only even for thin value all the way to the river with e.g. AJ on this board.
On this level you don't need to be overly concerned about (perfectly) balancing and MDF.

belrio42 6 years ago

Yungda Liu Your comment about betting flop and folding to a raise doesn't make sense to me. You say that you're betting for value/protection, but it looks to me that you're betting for "information", to try to figure out where you are in the hand.

You say that you're getting value from TT-88. You'll get value from them anyway on later streets, so this is not a good argument to bet.

As for protection, only a King or a Queen on the turn are bad for you. An Ace is good for you, because it makes it less likely that the opponent has an Ace. You'll get a King or Queen on the turn only 15% of the time. And even then, it's not guaranteed that the Villain has a K or Q in their hand.

Keep in mind that if you bet the flop and get raised by some FD or straight draw, you're folding a huge hand, and it's a very bad result for you.

This is not to say that range betting flop is a bad idea. My point is that you have to be comfortable with not knowing exactly where you are in a hand, and not simply assume that you're beat every time a "bad" card comes. Playing small pots out of position with marginal hands is a necessary skill to master.

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