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25/50 200bb deep facing allin w small flush

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25/50 200bb deep facing allin w small flush

4handed game 25/50 game w. ante

CO is a winning 10/20 -50/100 reg, no specific reads other than i very seldomly see this guy spass out. He is fish2013 if that has any interest.
Im in SB w 5c6c

CO opens to 150, i 3bet to 550, CO calls. POT 1140
FLOP is QcJc7d, i cbet 650, CO calls. POT 2440
TURN is a 4c, i cbet 1500, CO calls. POT 5440
RIVER is a 8h, i bet 4400, CO thinks for about 20 secs and jam rest, leaving me around 2700 to call.

HERO ?
Would you prefer a check-call here ?
Would you prefer betting different on any streets ?

10 Comments

Loading 10 Comments...

soggybottoms 12 years ago
What are your stats? How does he view you? Has a pretty big impact on his calling range on this river. He can get to this point with a some AcX hands that he decides to jam. KcX hands. I expect you get shown better quite often but i'd still have to call since your pretty much at the top of your range here.

Curious about one thing now that i'm thinking about it. Let's say you got here with 10k back and you bet 4400. Fold? Call? in villain's eyes he'll think he has more leverage with his bluffs. Which in your spot your getting better pot odds and his bluffs will work less. What would you do?
schellenbauer 12 years ago
Are my stats that interesting in this spot ? I would say im def no nit and he should be aware of this.

If i bet 4400 on river, and he jams extra 10k ? I go out and shoot someone
Sean Lefort 12 years ago
I'd just go ahead and jam the river.
schellenbauer 12 years ago
If you jam the river you will fold out most hands that are calling a standard valuebet and fold out all bluffing hands. Do you really think jamming is the best play here ?
Sean Lefort 12 years ago
I don't think his calling range is very elastic wrt bet-size.. and I think our range benefits the most as a whole by having the single jamming bet-size.
GameTheory 12 years ago
This is definetely a call since you're at the top of your range. At least in theory. If you're playing against a player that will never bluff in this spot and will never valueraise worse it becomes a fold. Good players will bluffraise in this spot because you get a very good price on your bluff and many players level themselves into thinking this is never a bluff.

I don't know if fish2013 is one of those good players, after all he is a fish.

I think check/calling here is bad and results orientated. On the flop I mix in cbetting with check/calling, but once I bet the flop I'm always betting the 4c.

How do you perceive this 20 sec delayed jam, more thin value, nuts or bluffs? Initially one would say thin value, but every thinking player can balance that.
schellenbauer 12 years ago
I was so convinced he wouldnt bluff here since i would be getting so good odds on a call. I dont find either of the scenarios more likely due to the 20 sec delayed jam, allthough i find it hard to believe he would be raising for thin value here, as in 9T, set or two pairs.

I ended up folding the hand bc i was so sure he wouldnt make that move as a bluff and Im quite confident he doesnt raise for thin value here. However the hand has been sticking to my brain which is why i share it, as this is def not a fold I usually make.
Peter Jennings 11 years, 11 months ago
I couldn't justify 3betting 56s here this deep pre if I was folding to this jam.

Also I'd never be sizing my river bet greater than half pot and less than all in.

You sorta put yourself in this spot made it way more annoying than it needs to be.

I see fish all the time value jam too thinly in these situations.
twoshae 11 years, 11 months ago
So, the way I see this, he can have AcTc and KcTc pre. What do you think about him having AcXc. He can't have the Ac5c because you have the 5, but do you think he can have Ac9c Ac8c? What about the ones that flop more gutters (Ac4c etc).

I doubt he wouldn't 4bet AcKc put it's possible. Stuff like Kc9c is probably not flatting you OOP (please challenge this is you think he will call this?).

Of those hands, don't you think he raises the flop quite frequently with them? I probably would not fold this in the moment but I think it is very close vs. a great player like fish2013.

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