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2/5 Live ~130 bbs deep

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

2/5 Live ~130 bbs deep

Villain: ~$650

Hero: covers

Villain has been playing fairly standard/taggish. We're both probably mid 20's. I've seen him ISO a few fishy players' limps and I have yet to see him limp yet. We've probably played a few orbits together and I don't think I've even seen him showdown a hand. Basically zero history. 

Folds to him in the HJ (shocking I know), he makes it 20, I 3b to 70 in SB with TdTc. He asks how much I have behind and calls after thinking for ~30 seconds. 

FLOP: KhJh5c ($150)

I bet $125, Villain calls after thinking for a minute or two

TURN: KhJh5c9c ($400)

I check, villain thinks for over a minute and bets $205. I jam. Thoughts?

6 Comments

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Chael Sonnen 11 years, 7 months ago

I think the 3-bet is a mistake. He's been fairly tight and he opened from the HJ, so his range should be fairly strong. There's not much value in 3-betting here. You're not planning to get in 130BB pre in a live game, right? You don't have to be worried about the BB squeezing either. 

You can bet once on the flop, but your sizing is too big. No need to bet more than 110. Setting up a pot sized turn bet goes way over most people's heads, and betting this big in live games is usually a mistake. 

I'd check the flop. Villians in live games tend to be pretty passive, so there's a decent chance he checks back worse, and you don't have to bloat the pot OOP. Yes, the board hits your range better than his, but it doesn't really matter here. He's not folding the flop with any pair, or decent draw.

Really dislike the turn play. Villian can easily have Kx or a big combo draw, and he's getting good odds to call your shove. You don't even block one heart, merely half his QT combos. He's almos

I suspect he called and won, given that you posted this hand.


stmarys 11 years, 7 months ago

Don't most villains (even most aggro guys you find at 2/5) check back combo draws, Jx, and even Kx a decent portion of the time in this turn spot? Are we looking at a range of nutted hands and air? Should we put any weight into his turn betsize? I asked if he meant to bet $200 or $205 and he kind of shrugged his shoulders and said it didn't matter. I'm not big into live tells but he looked a bit nervous. 

stmarys 11 years, 7 months ago

Another note: what should our range look like when we check the turn against an unknown? TT, QQ, Jx, air and occasionally KK, AK (although highly unlikely)?

BigFiszh 11 years, 7 months ago

The question "how much do you have behind", followed by a call (!) is a tell. It tells you that his hand is not strong enough to ship pre (no KK+, likely no AK?) but it´s good enough to call given that there´s plenty of room left to see and play a flop.

That means, he likely has hands like pockets (up to QQ), bunch of suited connectors, Ax. If you look at the board, you make an almost psb on the flop (which I think is quite big, but it´s still okay), and he tanks calls. He does not float imho, he´s either slowplaying a monster or he has QQ or he has a strong draw. I would exclude naked gutshots, like ATs and stuff.

The turn improves QTs, the worst made hand still being in Villain´s range is QQ, I´d say. The draws could be AQs (hearts, clubs?) and AXhh (not too many though). Once you check, QQ likely checks behind, as well as most draws - because it´s not too unlikely that you´re just planning to x/ship. That said, I don´t like the x/r on the turn.

I probably had just x/f the turn. The runout is just unlucky for your hand, if you ship you don´t have much fold equity, even draws like AQhh have ~30% equity and you are drawing to 4 outs, not even knowing if they´re all live.

If the hand still qualifies as a good 3bet-hand, live and against this opponent is hard to tell from remote. May or may not be ... but with the given history I´d say it´s sufficiently close and especially live, where you don´t have to be scared of BB squeezing light, I had likely flatted pre.

Tom M 11 years, 7 months ago

I can't see how we have any fold equity in the hand so I hate the turn play. 

Villain only has $250 behind in a $1,060 pot so he's getting in an insane price to call with anything here.

If he's been playing standard and taggish, what hand range did you assign to him where you decided shoving could be a profitable play? 

If you're going to go with it, at least just go ahead and jam the turn. It's spewy considering your hand but at least you're maxmizing whatever fold equity you may have. 

stmarys 11 years, 7 months ago

I know people kind of hate this, but I'm actually villain in this spot. I just wanted to see what most people thought of my range on the turn when I bet 1/2 pot and the implications of my turn sizing. In a live setting against people I deem competent I don't have much of a 4betting range IP, especially with these stack sizes, but I should probably just assume that no one is even paying attention to this. My range for betting the turn is insanely tight (which I think should be the case against most people) as I don't think I have very much fold equity with combo draws.  

So, in my spot, what are people doing with the following range (I'm really interested in turn sizing as well if we bet): 

Nuttish hands: AA, AK, sets

Combo draws / Pairs: ATh, AQh, Txh, Qxh, 5xh, etc / KQ, Jx

Draws: 78h (can't really think of any other hh hands that I'd flat a 3b with besides this, which is loose)

I don't think he would check KK, JJ, or even AK in this spot, so I think a turn bet is super profitable in this spot. And like most posters alluded to, with my turn sizing I'm priced in to call basically my entire range so in that regard I like my sizing. But I'm still really interested in any comments on turn sizing. Thanks

mike 11 years, 7 months ago

deja vu - i played almost the exact same board,hand, and line COvBB online yesterday.  i remembered it because he i though is play was bad and of course he rivers a T :)

anyway i don't like TT 3B BBvHJ in a live 2/5 setting as the average PFR in live poker is likely around 10%.  so do you really want to 3B TT vs such a tight range?

in your spot betting the turn my range is even stronger as i don't have any of the semi-bluffing hands in my preflop range because i think the average 2/5 3B range is soooo strong i just fold them pre.  also given the 14bb 3B i don't think we are really deep enough to call with SCs, suited B-way

with a little more than a PSB on the turn i usually just jam and try to rep a combo draw i never have in my range and let them hero call before the board gets more to scary (my really range is likely sets and AA in a live game)


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