2.5-2.5 Live game 4 way pot.
Posted by erdian
Posted by
erdian
posted in
Mid Stakes
2.5-2.5 Live game 4 way pot.
Hero UTG (400) AsQs
Villian 1 MIDPOS(500) Unknown just sat down
Villian 2 MIDPOS(500) Aggresive fish, have seen him make bluffs/thin valuebets can overvalue his holdings
Villian 3 STRADDLE(1000) A ''better'' Aggresive semifish that thinks he can play and usually comments on how bad others play when they call him down light etc...Really likes to call with draws or just pockets if u are deep. Have seen him call with 55 against me another session when I had about 800 on the flop for 2 out to set. He then bluffed the river and I called him down with a better pair.
The round starts with Villian 3 straddles to 5. Hero raises to 20 utg all 3 villians just calls.
Flop Js9s4x Villian 3 X Hero bets 55 into a 80 pot. ALL 3 villians just calls. Could have X/R aswell but then I am basicly pot commiting myself with a draw. Although a good one I would prefer to make them fold instead of calling me. If they bet out and have chips in the pot they could call me down quite ''light''. Also I wanted to find out where I stand.
Turn Ax Villian 3 X hero JAMS 300 into 300 pot. Villian 1,2 instafolds villian 3 tanks saying the wants to draw me out with a spade then eventually folds. I really was lost what to do here against 3 people on this kind off board. I do like the turn card and it should not worry me since the logical hands for them to have is AJ,A9 and I do block the ace myself.
I was thinking off betting just 150 for half the pot but I dont want 2-3 callers behind me and if the river is not a SPADE/A I would feel stupid for letting them bad beat me. At the same time their range consist mostly off draws here and JX and I would like them to call. Its just so unatural to be in a 4way pot on the turn after getting called by 3 people on the flop. After everybody folded I felt really stupid as I only get worse hands to fold and better to call but at the same time the fishesh really like draws and I wanted them to put basicly a ''dead'' money for maximum value. If they miss on the river I bet they most likely fold.
I feel now like I totally missplayed the hand and should have bet smaller but I was kinda lost and decided that an aggresive move is better then a passive/semiaggresive one so thats why I showed.
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I have some limited experience playing live games at these stakes, and it's pretty much all about super exploitative play and not worrying about our own ranges and being balanced. Pre-flop is standard. I like cbetting otf way better than c/r in live games here for the reason I stated above. No reason to think about how we would construct our action with the rest of our range otf because every live player is terrible. It's hard to believe c/r will generate too much more fold equity vs live fish anyways since no one is folding top pair otf. Going for a c/r does allow us to pot control when they check back with 9x and worse but we're favorite vs those hands anyways, and can easily barrel them down on later streets even if we don't improve. Cbetting also allows us to value bet vs all of the villains draws since we are ahead of all spades, GS, and OESD. Most live fish are very passive and will check back these hands, especially in multiway pots, so we lose value :(.
Ott, we should definitely aim for a smaller sizing IMO. Shoving here will probably never ever get called by worse, and probably never fold better vs stationy live players who won't fold bottom two pair here. However, even most fishy live stations won't call a PSB ott with a FD or SD. We can bet smaller to extract value from all of our opponents' Jx, weaker aces (if they have any), and draws. Maybe even QQ that slowplayed preflop and flop, you never know with live players lol. I wouldn't worry too much about betting small ott and losing value from draws when they brick the riv tho... You have 2 big spades in your hand, blocking most combos of FD (V's ranges are going to be weighted more to As than say the 5s). And you have a Q, blocking QT, V's most likely SD. So yea, I'd be betting smaller, like 120 -140 ott.
Honestly, with how hard you block combos of draws ott, you could even consider c/c ott. It's going to be hard to extract from a weaker made hand (Jx, TT, 9x, QQ, etc) in a multiway pot by betting ott. So you could even c/c ott and c/f otr if you miss bc most live players aren't good enough to value bet both turn AND riv without at least two pair+. This last part is kind of villain dependent though. Hope this helped, I only have ~300 hours of live poker in my life, so there's probably someone wayyy better out there who can answer this better haha.
U are absolutely right that I dont have to worry about ranges vs lives players since as u simply put it they are quite bad overall. As suspected a smaller bet on the turn for maximum value from worse hands is the optimal play I was just worried by betting like 130 as u suggest then getting 3 callers and the river is not a spade or A the hand could be lost but should be profitable i the long run because off my blockers.
It is just a strange spot even for me as a live player( you get into ALOT off them when u see how weird people plays :) ). That I felt some feedback on the hand was needed and u gave it to me.
Glad you found my thought process to be helpful, as I wasn't sure if all the points I was trying to make would be relevant. If you bet 130 ott and get called, I would really be inclined to ship the riv for value on all blanks since V's will probably just shove over all 2pair+ ott. And on most non-blanks (spades), you have the nuts lol. So basically be ready to shove riv for value if your opponents just call ott on almost every riv card :).
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