1/2 HU vs reg - Mid pair vs check-raise and barrel

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1/2 HU vs reg - Mid pair vs check-raise and barrel

BB: Player3: 224.60
SB: Hero: 534.60
VPIP: 86, PFR: 59, 3B: 24, AF: 2,4, Hands: 112

He is a reg that sat me. I´m unknown to him. In general he crs flop a bunch, but we haven´t played turn yet. He has 3 barrelled a missed draw before in position. He gives up a bit too easily in small pots. He has 2 barrelled a reraised pot and folded to a shove on a cordinated board with 2 flushdraws. He has 2 barrelled some air against a flop check-back before as well.
He bets all his air in position himself and give up on turn without equity in those pots. He isn´t that heroic in small pots.
I doubled when he 5bet AQs into AK.
Overall he seem more solid than spewy.

I´m not really sure if this should be a bet or check on the flop, given how likely my hand strenght is to change on the turn.
Given how wide he check-raises, I´m probably not 3-betting the flop that much, so aside from draws, this is near the bottom of my range, whether it is build correctly or not :)
Preflop (3) (2 Players)
Hero was dealt 6 T
Hero raises to 3, Player3 calls 2
Flop (8) 8 6 2 (2 Players)
Player3 checks, Hero bets 4, Player3 raises to 16, Hero calls 12
Turn (40) Q (2 Players)
Player3 bets 40

8 Comments

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Daniel Rainey 11 years, 7 months ago

Im not sure I would have cbet 6sTd on this board given his check raising tendencies. This board is just "high" enough and just coordinated enough where it hits his range in a way where I don't expect to get a ton of folds (and this is a "one street" value hand IMO).  I would rather call turn and decide on river based on what missed then get two bets in with mid pair on the flop. I would have plenty of big draws or top pair hands to do that with on this board. 

However once you get here, I think it is a call with your read (that he has a lot of bluffs when he check raises this flop). This Q does not complete any of his bluffs unless it pairs a card in has hand (which is relatively unlikely) and it is a card he will barrel nearly all the time with his bluffs (he needs the fold equity). 

I am making a lot of assumptions, but i just hate it when people respond to posts with "it depends" all the time. What do you think?

Teddy 11 years, 7 months ago

I can list a lot of reasons for both checking and betting with this hand, which is why i posted it.

I agree that unimproved its a 1-2 street hand, depending on turn and river cards. ("1.5" street hand?")

The hand is best currently about 80% of the time, has 65% equity, against a 100% oop range and 76% and 61% equity against a ~10th-70th percentile range.


I think the reason for betting are:

1) Equity.

2) Protection.

3) Keeping your range uncapped. Avoiding turning your hand "face-up".

4) More value on your good turns, than by checking.

5) Being able to flat wider against check-raises. Mainly having medium strength hands also, rather than strong/draw/floats, as it avoids a big shift in hand strength on blank turns.

Reasons for checking are: 

1) Avoiding building a bigger pot than the hand warrants.

2) Inducing a bluff/bluffs. I think the main value is inducing the turn bet, as people balance better on the river.

3) "Protecting your checking back range"

4) I´m sure someone will point out that you get a more polarized cb range also. I´m just not sure that is correct..

5) "Avoiding tough decisions in big pots"

As for the turn. His sizing threw me off a bit and I ended up folding. I think that it can be a call/call, call/fold or immediate fold depending on tendencies and theoretically low enough in my range to be one of the last two.

Marrek 11 years, 6 months ago

In your reasons for betting, #1 is greatly reduced by villain's tendency to xr alot, and I don't think #5 is valid with this hand vs this villain.

midori 11 years, 7 months ago

I don't think regs depend as wide as 80% vs your 3x raise.

Against the described villain I'd prefer checking this hand back, and probably betting stronger 6x, like Q6+ for example.  Thing is, there aren't lots of merits for uncapping your range here unless you are willing to turn your mid pair into a total bluff on some runouts.  Sure, you can hit your 5 outer on turn and get paid off by his 8x..  but wait, he is probably gonna c/r them on flop anyway.  Hence I don't think your reasons 2 and 4 for bettinf are very relevant in this spot, but I might be very wrong here.

Teddy 11 years, 7 months ago

It's a 1/2 hand, so my open is a minraise.

I´m actually more interested in talking about whether this hand should be bet or checked in general when both players have very wide ranges, rather than vs a specific opponent, as I see people I think play well do both all the time.

I think both options are +ev and will be in most ways you can split your range, which is why it´s so hard to figure out.

I also think a lot of toy games makes it look like you should polarize the flop, but feel like they might translate better to river play. Would like to know if I´m wrong though..

midori 11 years, 7 months ago

Ah, my bad about the preflop sizing. :(

Imo it's gonna be tricky to give you an one-fits-all answer because the more +ev play not only depends on how you build your range, but how he does his as well.  For example, against someone who doesn't check raise a ton this can be a c-bet, check and decide on the river or cbet, bet and bet or something like that.  They will have a wide range here on flop, yes, but they will also have a somewhat different xc, xr and xf ranges, and our decision heavily depends on those.

In general I would cbet this because I come from husng :)


Daniel Steinberg 11 years, 6 months ago

Betting full pot on the turn is super suspicious to me so I'd probably call based on that since its so marginal based on c/ring flop a bunch and this seems like a board people like to c/r often.

Marrek 11 years, 6 months ago

vs more passive players, i cbet here to collect dead $$, or capitalize on equity, value, or w/e you want to call it.  Vs a x/r'r, we don't get as much immediate value and  we don't collect as much dead $$ - in fact we are creating it here.  This leads me to checking back this hand.

As noted, our hand strength is going to change dramatically on many turns, so calling the flop x/r is going to suck alot, forcing us to fold when we feel bad about it or making hero plays with weak hands.

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