[10NL] Facing a raise overbet shove OTF with bottom 2
Posted by ChaoRen123
Posted by
ChaoRen123
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[10NL] Facing a raise overbet shove OTF with bottom 2
Hey,
This open is pretty standard for me, btn, co and bb are big nits (their VPIP is around 15 and 3bet 2%), sb is a big fish, and overall the pool is so passive that I can make profit of this kind of open.
OTF I go large to get maximum value on the fish, and now he shoves. I think he could definitely have Qx or draw type hands, but this is still close, given that he is 40/6/0 and seems passive.
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If he's passive I'm herofolding the flop
easy call against such an opponent postflop.
J6s in MP is ridiculous wide open, even if people just 3bet 2%-4% range.
You try to exploit by opening wider and you reached a point that you just gonna exploit yourself.
You will never be able to push these type of hands into profit, especially having rake higher than 5bb/100.
Hey, thanks for your answer, with these 3 nits after us what would be the bottom of your opening range?
I just wrote this under a similar post today it fits here also:
First of all you need to differ the stealing positions CO/BTN/SB
in these positions you can have elastic opening ranges, how much you deviate depends on the sample of hands you have of your opponents and how inelastic they are in their response.
here is a quote of a Top10 6max player in the world about this topic:
“Start to make explo adjustments on BTN/SB/BB villains by your openraise strategy CO (and of course the same for BTN, SB). For example I would explo openraise on the CO 30% vs weak passive players behind and openraise 50% on the BTN. We never want to go overboard with these kind of adjustments and I would never openraise more than 50% on the BTN. We also have to take into account the colliding ranges on the Flop if we explo openraise wider. Which means we will be playing with a wider range on the Flop against a tighter range than average, we already exploited our opponent preflop, so we have to cbet less in this spot to keep our preflop exploit profitable.”
So basically we are almost inelastic in MP
Very interesting, thanks!
Is this for the sake of balance/ not being counter-adjusted quickly?
I mean, logically, if I play in a field where the pool will be overly passive postflop, folds too much in various hotspots at a point where I can open 72o OtB and make long-term profit, it is a bit counter-intuitive to start folding it?
Even though in EP it makes a lot more sense that it will be inelastic given that much more oponents are left to act, the probability to get 3bet goes higher and higher quickly. It makes more sense intuitively because if "oponents agregated 3bet%"= X, X tends to the "infinite" if we go more and more early position ^^
You need a reasonable samplesize of all the 4 players behind you to make such huge deviations. Which also means your opening yourself up for huge counter exploits, because your basically pointing fingers at their mistakes, which is not a good approach in terms of exploiting in poker in general.
It's similar to a Rock/Paper/Scissor game
Your opponents throw Rock 40% (instead 33% GTO) of times, and you start throwing Paper for 10 rounds straight. Even a guy with bad mathematical understanding will figure out what your doing, cause you point your finger at his bad strategy.
Instead of throwing Paper 40% of times, less explo strategy but more EV longterm cause not detectable by a weak opponent.
Bottom of the default Jxs open from the MP is like J9s. J8s is wider, J7s is maybe okay because still capable to hit a 2card straight, and can hit more GS, hard to say. J6s is like the bottom of an around top ~40-45% percent opening range, more than double as wide as your standard open raise range on MP. I like you widening your range in the situation tho. As korn1337 said rake is a significant factor also if you play nl10 ~5% with a 10 - 15bb cap.
Start with those Jxss that can flop the nut straight. That would be J8s as the bottom of the MP range. QJ outflops you on T98 with J7s. I can even see J9s being the bottom in higher rake environments.
I can find fold on flop. The price kind of sucks. Standard passive fish is not check/raising vs. big bet anywhere near a balanced strat here. Even vs. a balanced range of NFD's, AQ+, you only have about 41% to 42%, you need about 46% here to break even.
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