10/20 6max AA easy call?

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10/20 6max AA easy call?

10/20 Bovada

No reads on utg, as its early in the game.  He hasn't done anything crazy.  

Effective stacks 2200.  Utg opens 60, I 3b to 210 otb with AA

Flop KJT rainbow

Both check

Turn 8c bringing backdoor fd, I have Ac

Utg bets 410 into 450.  I call

River 8o

Utg shoves into 1600 effective into 1270. 

I?


25 Comments

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Chael Sonnen 11 years, 4 months ago

Your pre-flop 3-bet is a little to big, given you're in position. 180 is fine.
Putting this hand at the top of your back checking range seems fine, as the worst hand that might stack off is KQ, which has a lot of equity, and he'd likely 4-bet AK.

Turn call looks good.

Definitely calling river. Once you check back the flop, you never have better. It's unlikely Villian has 8x in his pre-flop calling range UTG, unless he has exactly quads.

He can be doing this with hands like KQ for value, because of your perceived capped range.

BigFiszh 11 years, 4 months ago

What´s your position? If you xb AA on this board, you should probably check your entire range - and I´m not sure, if that´s a good idea, you had to include AQ into the xb-range to keep AA in the middle.

As played, I guess you "have" to call, simply because you likely moved your hand to the top of your range, this makes it readless a call, as long as you don´t have any further information on Villain.

Juan Copani 11 years, 4 months ago

Very agree with BigFiszh said. It´s important to know what´s your position, and if you have AQ into your 3b range, because if you have it, you can perfectly bet this texture and not be worry about villain xRaising or Leading too much as a bluff. And you can Bet, Bet, Check or Bet, Bet, Bet ( villain dependent). Like he said, you splitted your range in a way where you puted this hand into the top of your range and would be a big bleeding into your overall strategy if you check back such a strong hand and you can´t even get to the showdown in a safe runnout.


Oliver Price 11 years, 3 months ago

I'm not sure I agree with the general response to this. I think firstly, we really don't need to worry massively about being balanced vs an unknown in a live game. If someone turns out to be a sicko, then we can think twice about it. Some more info on the age of the guy and how he handled himself would be good, as you can make some reasonably good assumptions as to whether he's a pro or not with this.

In this case though it probably doesn't matter too much. I think it was played fine, and I don't think the river by any means is an easy call. I think if you get in the habit of making super thin calls because you don't want to fold the top of your range in spots like this, it's just going to end up costing you more than it will make you vs most players in live games. I think if we actually weighed up V's range here, we're doing pretty badly. The 2 hands we can somewhat count on are AK or KQ. We block half the combos of AK, and shoving over pot here for value with KQ would be very surprising. Plus any offsuit KQ combos I would expect to generally be folded pre, and maybe even some suited combos too. As would I expect KJ/ KT to fold pre. With an UTG open and a call, there are very few bluffs V can have here. So I would generally weigh V's range towards TT/JJ/AQ + 1 combo of 88, with the odd AK/ KJs in there. Considering it's an overbet and our price is terrible, I would lean more towards folding.

TimDawn 11 years, 3 months ago

In response to the last post, he said this was 10/20 Bovada. Not a live game. As played I think this is a call on the river. Since you checked back the flop, an unknown villain could be going for thinner value than what he perceives our range to be. Also, he could have been betting KJ or K10 on the turn and still think it's good on the river. Since its very unlikely villain has 8s in his range and we are now ahead of KJ/K10 I'm leaning towards a call.

I'm mostly only worried about 10s, jacks or AQ. We also have 2 blockers 2 AQ. Since villain is an unknown I think this is a call.

freefalling80 11 years, 3 months ago

i think that vrs the turn big bet and river overbet all in AA is crushed i think you have plenty of other hands in your 3 betting range that can call, you can fold AA vrs that bet sizing on turn and river.  I think betting flop and maybe turn yields you way more value and you get the added benefit of seeing what he does on flop instead of guessing on turn and river if he is bluffing pair +straight draw.  I think you have to bet this flop 100% for value- what was your reason for checking?

freefalling80 11 years, 3 months ago

AQ KJs, KK, JJ I think are plenty of hands to call river over bet with b/c its not like your going to have an insanely high 3 bet % vrs an UTG open.  I think the biggest mistake is not betting flop tho gives you no info about his range and your left playing a guessing game while giving villan the impression you don't have a strong hand since you checked the flop

Peter Jennings 11 years, 3 months ago

The bovada 10/20 games are my bread and butter.  I play flop and turn the same, and the river is a very easy fold.  Yes it's true he could take stuff like QJ turn it into a bluff and push you off your AK/AA hands that would take this line 100% of the time, but people just don't play in such an exploitative manner in these games and most are afraid no one knows how to fold.  I'd toss this one and feel good about it.


TheArchivist 11 years, 3 months ago

really? What about KJ/KT that we counterfeited on the river? I can see  a fold if the river doesnt pair the board maybe..

Peter Jennings 11 years, 3 months ago

Ah, I didn't notice that the first time around ...

Still I'd fold the river.  I rly am not a huge fan of 3betting in these spots.  Your opponent's continuing range to your 3bet should be very strong and include all sets on this flop.  You're really only good if he's massively overplaying AK.  And you block two aces.  He's more likely to take a showdown bound like w/ QQ and very likely to bet turn/shove river w/ KK // JJ // TT. Think it's easy fold.  This is part of the reason I really don't like to 3bet there though.  Just your narrow your range so much and it makes it really easy to play against you on a number of flops.  Also I think it's going to be quite rare anybody flats KJ/KT/JT pre to your 3b OOP.  They should be slightly more likely to flat JTs and fold KJ/KT.


Quietly 11 years, 3 months ago

For what it's worth I think an unknown will not have many KJ here and even when he does, he will not use this sizing with that hand very often.  That said he is obviously repping very narrow so even a few cases of his having KJ or KT could have an impact on the proper decision.  

If I was trying to play as balanced as possible, as people have said, I would not fold this hand in this situation.  


HOTSANDWICH 11 years, 2 months ago

You have aces up, you got to the river without aces up, you call and sold yourself for giving free cards to something lame if you are beat.   

Lucas Greenwood 11 years, 1 month ago
I agree with Peter about folding, if he can have AQs, JJJ, TTT, that's 8 combos. I'd assume most people don't bluff KJ/KT here because they have too much sdv. If he bluffs JTs, thats still only 2 combos. The only reason to call here IMO, is if you have reason to believe he would overbet his bluffs and not overbet his value.

Game Theory´s Instructor 11 years, 1 month ago

It is impossible to figure out what your line should look like since we do not know how your three bet range looks like. My guess though is that range vice and balanced vice, your line is perfectly fine if you called river with a hand that should be in the top of your range after the line taken.


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