100zoom river decision 3b pot
Posted by Hova
Posted by
Hova
posted in
Low Stakes
100zoom river decision 3b pot
Blinds: $0.50/$1.00 (6 Players)
BN: $125.92
SB: $100.00 (Hero)
BB: $100.00
UTG: $100.00
MP: $202.36
CO: $137.99
SB: $100.00 (Hero)
BB: $100.00
UTG: $100.00
MP: $202.36
CO: $137.99
Preflop
($1.50)
Hero is SB with
J
A
, , , ,
Flop
($17.00)
J
9
6
,
Turn
($31.66)
J
9
6
5
,
River is 6d i dno how to hide results
Villain is reg RFI btn 40% fold to 3bet 40% but small sample, probably defending close to correctly.
I feel like I'm at the very bottom of my value range and block his calling range so is shoving too thin? What is best action?
I assume its an easy shove if he calls JTo-JKo pre but idk if he does.
thanks
Loading 14 Comments...
On the river if we build our range in a way that we aren't shoving AJ here against the 100nl player pool, we are missing value.
I agree, all the broadway straight draws missed and the only draw that came in is 78, he barely has any 6x and over pairs and some people will jam the turn with sets/J9s to protect vs 4straight so I think AJ is a clear shove.
I would x/c the river. I think that it is better than shoving. There are more missed draws/air combos in his range that he has to bluff with than worse hands with which he can call.
KJs, QJs, JTs, are worse hands he can possibly call but might also fold otr to a jam.
QTs, J9s, A9s, K9s, Q9s, T9s, T8s, 98s, 97s, 88, 77 are all hands he can bluff/turn into bluffs. But he's definitely folding those to a jam.
JJ, 99, 66, 55, 65s, 87s, 86s, 76s has us beat and is never folding.
I think he is less likely to shove 9x than you are assuming. That only necessary to get me off Jx+ which he shouldn't think is likely.
But looking at the range you give him if he has us beat 14 combos and only calls with worse 6 combos. However I think this range is wrong against button he should have KJ-JTo so that's 24 worse calls and if he calls 9x sometimes shoving starts looking really easy.
Fair enough. Leaving KJo-JTo out was a bit sloppy by me. Personally I don't defend KJo-JTo in that spot but I can certainly see why you include them in villain's range. I would also never call a jam otr with 9x. I might bluff QTs, T8s and maybe 9x straight blockers on seldom occasion if I pick up some river explo spot on villain.
I guess I was just putting myself in villain's shoes, and against my range that gets to the river you probably wouldn't want to jam this unless of course I am missing something essential or if my thought process is flawed here.
If I was villain in this hand and you knew my river calling range would be JJ, 99, 66, 55, 65s, 87s, 86s, 76s, AJs, KJs, QJs, and JTs would be the worst combo I'd call with. TT, A9s, K9s, Q9s, T9s, 98s, 97s, 88, 77, and 75s would all hit the muck. Would you still jam?
I see your point, and it's been a while since I played a lot of 100nl so maybe my assumptions are off. But I would think that there are villains who will fold 55 on the flop, or shove turn with some parts of that range.
After thinking about it a bit more I think I might have been constructing a river range backwards (I can have a ton of bluffs so he can call a lot so I can value bet wider...)
On the other hand if villain folds all 77, 88 and 9x the bluffs in my range are profitable as your calling range is 23 combos even if they all get to the river but you're folding 30 combos of 77+ (I moved J9s to calling range since I assume that was a mistake).
easy shove, we have so many possible bluffs here, for villian as well easy spot to herocall us
Thanks I agree now was clearly being results oriented at time.
Can you name the most prominent ones? I worry about over bluffing this spot so I might be under bluffing it significantly.
I'm not sure about this, and apologies if this sounds rash but to me this indicates that you are looking at this spot from a strictly exploitative point of view expecting villain to make very bad calls for our AJ combos to be easy shoves. Am I overlooking something?
KQo,AKo,AQo,ATo, T8s,QTs, KTs, A7s,A8s, some random A4s. But obviously not bluffing all missed hands all the time. AK,AQ,AT checking turn, KQ time to time too, or bet twice give up river
About 2nd comment, not exploitative point of view. I have no idea how villian plays, but I will try to play close to GTO and AJ is a shove there, if villians doesnt play good (which I dont know), and folds KJ (really dumb assumption), then my AJ as a shove have lower EV(still really +EV), but all my bluffs now profit bunch more than 0 EV bb
That makes sense to me. However, the range you give on the river for bluffing seems very wide and maybe that is also a reason why in your case AJ becomes a value bet as Tom mentioned in his reply above.
Many of those combos your listed aren't even in my river range to begin with - namely AK, AQ, AT because I'd check/fold them all on the turn.
Another problem I could see us run into is that we end up not having a check-calling range - after all AJ has to be one of the weakest hands in your range that gets to the river aside from airballs. So every time we check this river villain can just do whatever he wants and whenever we bet villain can assume we have 40-80 combos of bluffs in our range. Otoh our value range is more narrow and only consists of maximum of 38 combos. From what I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) if we bet pot OTR our value to bluff ratio should be 2:1 so in that case we should have no more than 19 bluff combos in our range.
PS.
In regards to villain holding KJo-JTo combos -it is very likely the true that he has all of them if your stats are correct and he defends ~320 out of ~530 combos from his opening range. Therefore against this particular villain I like a bet with AJo a lot more than against myself. But from a balance perspective I am still not absolutely convinced that a bet is better than a check. Unless of course we just don't care at all about having a check-calling range on this particular river.
I will ask a friend to pio this scenario for me later if he's online, and post his findings. I am intrigued by this spot as you can probably tell ;)
seems alright to over fold river, not like villian gonna ever use it against us and call any 2 cards flop and turn. Something like KJ, QJ , JT ( mixed ott but with 1/3 flop bet, make sense as a bet) for us ch/call on the river, possible to put AK as 0 EV check-call.
fine
x turn option
river shove or bluff catch seems ok
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