WSOPE Event #4 (1.5k) - weird riverspot with full on river

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WSOPE Event #4 (1.5k) - weird riverspot with full on river

2nd level, blinds 50/100, eff. stacks are ~16k. I sit in the big blind with 88. Everybody folds to the BTN, a young, indian-looking guy, who was quite active, but not fishy or splashy. I've seen him minbetting a multway turn before (after flop got checked through) and then almost potting the river (HU) with pure air. I've been very calm and played few hands in the first level, so nobody has any other impression of me than being tight.

Preflop
Hero is BB with 8h 8c
BTN raises 275, Hero calls

Flop
As Ks 5c

Pot: 600
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn
8h

Pot: 600
Hero bets 420, BTN calls

River
5s (completes possible flush draw)

Pot 1,440
Hero checks, BTN bets 850, Hero raises to 2k, BTN (thinks 3 secs) and raises to 5.7k

What do you think?

6 Comments

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Swoop 9 years, 5 months ago

Seems to me like he is repping the Qx of spades, Aces, Kings and quads of course. I doubt he would even be playing the (nut)flush this way tbh. The question however is how would he be getting to the river with those combos without betting the flop as the pfr.

I dont have a very good answer to that. I dont see ppl checking very good, but non-nutty hands (A5o e.g.) on the flop very often - granted this is online as I have next to no live MTT experience.

In my mind we would have to discount some of those combos that would either bet the flop or raise the turn when donked into. I dont know if he realizes that he cant add that many bluff combos while having so few value ones.

Given that this leaves us with very few combos that beat you and also given that you only have to call 3.7k in a pot that is now (1440+850+2000+4850) 9140 I can hardly ever see us folding here vs an unknown (If this was part of your question - I personally think we should at least consider it for a brief moment). I dont think we learn very much from the previous hand you described other than that he might use some weird lines and might (!) not be an expert player.

That being said. I can hardly ever see myself not going all in here without a very specific read. You´re only beat by AA, KK and 55. He will call with the smaller full houses and insta-fold all his bluffs and flushes.

SPrince 9 years, 5 months ago

When he checks the flop he almost always has some sdv as i`d expect him to cb most of his air+Ax+ otf so his range is gonna be mostly bluffcatchers otr and you should be betting more then checking.Also your x/r is too small.

As played pretty gross, only worse i see him doing this with is 85s and thats one combo (think he bets A5 on this board close to 100%), dont think he has any bluffs as well.The fact he might overplay Q high flushes (which he prob cbs), and the random button clicking possibility makes me wanna shrug call it off, but id expect to see slowplayed 55,AA,KK a lot.

Will Winaton 9 years, 5 months ago

Misdeal. :D
I don't think I'm competent enough in live hs tourneys but I'll just write my thoughts.
Players usually don't slowplay A5 type hands, he shouldn't have flushes often either. So I think his range for value is KK+ almost always, unless he somehow overvalues a flush, and potentially sometimes he turns something into bluff, which I'm not sure how capable they are of doing.
Against a polarized range like this, with the possibility of him making a mistake I think our best option is to call.

twinskat 9 years, 5 months ago

BF--

I know tourneys can be different than cash, but I would ask about your line? Were you betting the Turn to induce a raise? and next, were you checking the river to induce a bluff?

two things come to mind for me.

  1. When the flush card hits the river , AND pairs the board, many showdown hands that might be tempted to bet for value shut down IP, and just check back.

  2. When the PFR does NOT Cbet, and you have a strong hand, would you bet into him on the Turn normally? If so, and he raised, how do you react?

I am not sure about your lines, and so am asking,....

but one thing for sure. If I get to the river with this hand, I would already know how many bets I want to get in the pot. For me, vs the PFR, I would be very very comfortable with two bets. Three, and I start feeling beat! In a tourny with stakes so high, (chip wise I mean, rather than being able to just reload) I might be tempted to win pots rather than chips. So for me, I would rather bet the river, get raised, and make a fairly comfortable call, rather than checking, and then when the opponent would probably bet a VERY polarized range, having my raise be 3bet big?

I don't know if I am explaining it clearly enough, but for me, you are hoping for rare circumstances when you xr the river, and hope to get much extra value from the opponent without facing the large 3bet issue. What hands would he really do this with that are medium value hands. So you put yourself in a tight spot playing it this way.

I ;check the Turn, probably xr if he bets, then lead the 5s on river. Calling all raises within reason on the river.

which

PS I have never played a live event tourny though :)

Andre Bilenky 9 years, 5 months ago

Doubt any competent+ player 3bets river with flushes here especially when they rarely have them ( expect fd cbet flop alot on a board wich he gets lots of folds). So he is repping AA . I think KK, 55 and A5 bet flop the vast majority of the time being so deep , and even AA i think wants to build a pot as soon as possible.
I imagine that with the nuts here , he wouldnt just snap make 5.7 k here and u having the 2 best hand on your range makes me tempted to call. But just a sick spot that i would try to pick some live reads i guess.

Rapha Nogueira 9 years, 5 months ago

If he raises boats+ only, then 88 is not a great bluff catcher. His timing screams strength given that this is not a great spot for him to be bluffing given how strong your river range is (I don't get your river sizing) and his checking frequency with AA/KK on AK5r is considerably high on BN x BB spots given how often you miss this board and also due to card removal effects.

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