WPT 5 diamond hand against Luckychewy (10k buyin)
Posted by Nipun Java
Posted by
Nipun Java
posted in
High Stakes
WPT 5 diamond hand against Luckychewy (10k buyin)
"Had an interesting spot in WPT 5 diamond. Blinds 75/300/600. 15 minutes left in level which then closes reentry. Starting stack is 30k. I'm on bullet 1 that I won a mega satty for. I have 27k starting the hand. Folds to Luckychewy in hj who opens to 1400 (with about 30k). I have AToff in cut off. I make it 4100. Folds back to chewy who calls. Flop 532hh. I have no hearts. He checks. There's 10k in the middle now and have 23k left. My thinking here is that his calling range here pre can be wide but most likely 22-JJ, all suited broadways combos, all suited aces, AQoff-AJ and ATs.. Possibly aj off. And some suited connectors. Think he folds qj off ktoff, jtoff, kt pre. Thoughts on how to continue?"
Above hand as dictated to me by a close friend and good live reg.
Additional thoughts:
a) Im basically looking at this spot to get feedback as to what cbet sizing post is good in this spot?
b) Is there any merit in overbetting flop considering any cbet prices us against a check shove? Or does it?
c) Any other thoughts?
Loading 15 Comments...
I wonder how good the 3bet pre is really and if call is not the better opotion(of course depending on the people behind you. Even ip ato in a 3bet pot plays poorly.
It could be argued that it is an 3bet pre for value, when he calls this wide, but to realize our equity-edge postflop is hard. Also we fold a lot of equity vs a 4bet and if we call a 4bet, the hand plays even more poorly.
The flop is quite interesting. On the one hand a cbet gets mostly worse hands to fold and against an shove we fold quite a lot of equity. On the other hand he doesn't really hit the board, as all his suited connectors and highcards miss and we have qq+, which he doesn't have. And a checkbehind make our hand quite obvious.
As this is the worst ax we have in our range I would make an 5k cbet as to have an credibel turnshove sizing and would fould vs shove. The stacksizes make it difficult to size for 3 streets, so I don't think betting snaller achieves that much.
I think overbetting is really bad in this spot. To bet bigger to give yourself the right odds to call is almost always bad. If you want to attack his capped range just shove turn. Overbetting just makes it easier for him to fold a lot at the flop and not make a mistake. Our range overall really want to bet on the smaller side, to make his decision with his weaker hands more difficult.
Not sure i like the 3B with that hand. I play's sorta bad postflop. Dunno though, its a bit ankward. Fold seems not good vs active HJ. flat is not so atractive if players behind are good with squeeze.
You say he is not folding much to 3B and has a wide range. If his range is that wide then he proberly should not fold much on that board vs Cbet.
His range has a lot better hands than yours, all PP's better Ax, some set's some hh's.
Think check behind is best on that flop. There are a lot of other textures that are better to Cbet, and also some where you can barrel turn better with more credability. This is sorta the problem with A10o you cant barrel it a lot as you can with other combo's.
Also dont like a flop shove unless you have some agro history between you. Smaller bets are better for your whole range, cheaper to bluff / gets payd more often when you have it.
Think Check behind is best.
Our range has more equity on this flop. 3better also has the position+initative, so I don't think his ''stronger'' ranges should be an argument for checking flop. This flop is also ugly for our opponent, as he has few strong hands (I personally don't think he flatcalls 22-55, I just don't see how it can be profitabel. He is oop with 50bb and plays vs a bigger 3bet sizing). Furthermore his broadways+scs which are quite a few combos only hit the flushdraw and with something like a7s, he has problems to call because he doesn't know how clean his outs are and the turnshove is always a threat from us.
I added any axs and any pockets to the range below, although I personally don't think he calls that wide.
Board: 5h3h2c
Equity Win Tie
MP2 47.25% 44.48% 2.78% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo-AJo, KJo+ }
CO 52.75% 49.97% 2.78% { KK-TT, AdAh, AdAs, AdAc, AhAc, AQs+, A5s-A2s, QTs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AQo+, ATo, KJo }
Some great input. Thanks guys. I'm more interested in post flop decision. I would be interested in knowing how does Chewy react with 77 and 88 on that board texture. Does he continue with those hands to overbets the same way you would to a normal sized cbet so to speak. Are there hands that chewy would fold to overbets that he would normally continue with? If we do decide to cbet normal sizing (3500 to 5k) shouldn't we be always barreling?. Im normally not a fan of flop overbets but it seems like there maybe some merit in doing it here.
Shoving the flop is fun. Seriously it works pretty well with the right image. And above all it just sucks for vilain to call with most anything.
As this is a big live event, you bettter control your body if you want to make such a brutal play.
Otherwise I'd like a check back, maybe stab later in the hand.
I'm not a fan of the PF 3b either, I'd rather flat usually, but I can see good reasons to 3b, so whatever.
3betting is fine but I'd make it a bit smaller. Shoving flop is monster fun since his offsuit combos will rarely hit this texture. In general this flop doesn't connect a lot with your range and with premiums you still can be all in on the river. Checking flop is an option if you are checking your whole range.
i agree but i have a few things to add:
-- i think his range may be actually tighter in this spot, given 3b size. I'd say he doesn't have any sets in his range for this size, actually (or rarely).
-- I think we have a pretty strong range advantage, especially if we also 3b hands like A2s-A5s, because now our bluffs have pretty good equity.
-so, I think we can cbet pretty wide here, even with our hands like KxJh
to bet this wide you gotta go smaller. this will lead to a higher flop calling frequency and consequently given the pot size turn is a mandatory shove with whole range, turning the play into a very expensive one.
I don't see how to make money firing 50bbs on this spot, probably against the best player at the table.
he is getting very good odds to peel pocket pairs and I even tough I don't know his game I doubt he is folding 55. cbetting 4.2k seems good.
I dont agree we need to shove our whole range on the turn. There are some hands like kjo and kto that seem like reasonable 3bets, that won't pick up equity and will just check back.
and if you think cbetting our whole range for small sizing and shoving turn a lot is too expensive, then how do you prefer we split our range?
Check AK, AA, some A5s A3s A2s, some KJ KT with no backdoors and cbet TT-KK ,KT KJ with backdoors, some A5s A3s A2s, A4s, ATo ?
(this is assuming we 3b a blocker heavy bluffing range)
I rather play a more simply strategy on those spots when stacks are shallow enough than split my range. Specially on MTTs I rather play whole range aggressive strategies and mix on spots that I am playing deeper.
Chewy flop calling range should have a good portion of 66-88 and he is not getting an amazing price to call turn. He probably is folding a portion of them with some frequency so I wouldn't be too excited on shoving but if you are not bluffing on spots that you are getting called a lot, you are not bluffing enough (:
above, you said "to bet this wide you gotta go smaller. this will lead to a higher flop calling frequency and consequently given the pot size turn is a mandatory shove with whole range, turning the play into a very expensive one.
I don't see how to make money firing 50bbs on this spot, probably against the best player at the table."
so, it seemed u were advocating splitting your range. your now saying you want to cbet nearly your whole range for small size and then fire through with some combos, such at AT, on most turns?
I am not splitting since I am playing a pure strategy with my preflop 3betting range. If I decided to check I am checking my whole 3betting range and if I decided to bet is to bet whole range. To play a bit more simply strategy and maybe making him fold AJ/AQ OTT there is merit to shove ATo and is a hand that still have some equity against 66-88 and possibly some fold equity given image and the turn card.
why play a pure strategy? do u do that always with 3b range?
but i agree jamming ATo on turn here has merit, including with Ah or Th if heart comes in
nope, I tend to play mixed strategies all the time. given stack depth I am not in love splitting my range with a PSB behind OTT. There is basically none bluff that I want to shut down on most turns and also, most of my value hands also doesn't want to shut down on basically any turn. If I had QQ and turn is an ace I might consider checking with some frequency since he may peel two overs + gutter against some of my overpairs (even tough I block a good portion of AQo and if he is calling AJo on this flop he is probably overcalling). A hand as weak as ATo I rather put him in a tough spot and set a turn shove.
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