WCOOP bluffcatch gone wrong
Posted by PhilG86
Posted by
PhilG86
posted in
High Stakes
WCOOP bluffcatch gone wrong
SB: 18673
BB: 36224
UTG: 32201 (Hero)
UTG1: 31880
UTG2: 7132
LJ: 46102
HJ: 7934
CO: 9241
Hero raises to 1200, UTG1 folds, UTG2 folds, LJ folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN folds, SB calls 900, BB calls 600
Hi guys thanks for taking a look at this hand for me. My first high buy-in tournament and it was going really well until I butchered this hand.
I realise this is a very thin, high variance call down but in my mind a had a few reasons for it. It's the WCOOP sunday million so the structure is slow and I've been playing for a while with villain. He has flatted SB twice recently and donked big both times on low flops getting instant folds.
I felt like he was either on a busted flush draw or decided to play an 8 this way. I didn't figure he'd have many 8s so basically went with my read which turned out to be very wrong. I didn't think he would bet 3 streets into me when my range should be strong from UTG as I would likely play AA,KK,QQ the same way.
I was kicking myself after the hand but I enjoyed playing against people who don't shove KTo like it's the nuts.
Any thoughts welcome.
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hey phil
i think villains flatting range would strong enough here from the sb, and would assume its made of hands to good to fold, but not good enough/or he doesnt feel comfortable with, to 3b gii against your utg pfr range. Maybe something like AQo/KQs,66-TT/JJ.
You said villain, flatted SB twice recently and donked big both times on low flops getting instant folds. For me, it would be interesting to know the pfr's position in both cases and whether the pots where multiway or headsup?And maybe any 3b% and vpip/pfr stats you may have for him?
I kinda of like his line of donking,as he could assume you dont have many 8x in your range, and would probably fast play over pairs and nut flush draws a decent % of the time on the flop, (but maybe not??)
I cant see him getting to the river with much air type hands that he randomly decides to triple barrel bluff, besides busted flush draws obviously, and I feel he is more like to jam or just check give up with those on the river, if not to try and x/r gii on the flop. Also kinda think he may only barrel nut flush draws, of which he may only flat aj(which u block)/a10(which he may fold pre)/aq pre flop, as a baseline assumption.
As played, I'm not sure if I like just calling flop,given his tendency to donk, as I would expect turn bet a decent % of the time from this type of player on blank turns. would prefer maybe to bluff raise flop,(preferably if we held the A of hearts rather than the J)and barrel heart turns and J/q/k/a, to put pressure on 66-JJ. If I do float flop, i think im just giving up on this turn however.
Interested to hear other peoples thoughts and whether I'm on the right line, cheers.
Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I only have the low stakes version of PT4 so I didn't have a HUD running to tell you stats but I can say that both previous pots where I mentioned he donked were multi way and at least one of them was vs UTG.
I agree he might only be barrelling nut flush draws which is why I thought he might try to blow me off a chop (assuming he thinks I'd float twice with A high). If I had the Ah I think I'd have been more inclined to fold turn or river
With 3 Reshove Stacks (Utg2, HJ, &CO) I Think AJo Is A Fold Preflop.
As Played, I Think Calling Flop With Intention Of Giving Up On Turn Unimproved Is Our Best Plan. Without StatS, Its Hard To Determine How Often This Villian Will Be Triple Barreling.
Question: What Was Your Plan After Calling The Turn? What Were You Going To Do On Any Non 2,8,A OR J?
Side Note: Preante Its Not That Big Of A Deal, But I'd Recommend Upping Your UTG raise SizeTto 2.3-2.6X With Your Full Range.
Thanks for the reply, yeah AJo is bottom of my range here so probably not the best Ace high hand to choose to float. I can see with the reshove stacks that I should probably tighten up a bit. I still felt comfortable opening AJo as the table was fairly passive, my raises had been getting quite a bit of respect and only the guy on my direct left was really playing back at me with any great frequency.
After calling turn I was really hoping he'd just give up but I'd fold if a K,Q,T came. I think it was the board pairing that convinced me to call
Pre ante I normally go 2.5-3 depending on stack sizes but do most people go more than a min raise from utg with antes in play? Table standard had been min-raise at this point
I think AJo open UTG is fine in this spot, just because we aren't going to get shoved on that much. This WCOOP is going to be packed w ave/rec players that give way too much respect to ep opens, so doubt they will ever shove here correctly. Also, we have 2 very strong blockers, std open.
On the sizing part, i don't think there's any need to up to 2.3x, we're already postante here and averaging below 50bb. Also in fields like these i don't really see any point in upping for FE or stuff like that, because people generally don't adjust at all. We can do it for value tho, if we feel so.
On the actual hand, i hate how you played this. Someone that's as passive as he is, just won't triple barrel oop into an UTG opener without having a (relatively) strong hand. I've seen someone mention bluffraising the flop, pls don't take this advice on board. If a guy like him leads out on a flop like that his range is heavily weighted towards pocket pairs, and he probably is going nowhere. I also saw you mention that you would fold on QKT turns, which is just flawed logic (bar the T). He's not going to donklead a paired flop w KQ, he's more likely to x/c that, hoping to peel one off. So if we float this flop, we should see a Q or K turn beneficial to our range, rather than a reason to fold. Mmkay.
I would probably float flop, evaluate turn, on this turn im folding 100% to his double barrel. On any Q/K (and obv A) turn im jamming sometimes to his lead, but he might check there a lot, so just bet/bet and take it down if he does check. We can also float turn, and bomb river if he checks to us, for the very reason our UTG opening range has way more strong Q's and K's in it. On a jack turn we obv go broke. Might be inclined to jam heart turns too, but i need more specifics/dynamics to make that judgement call.
What i see here in your postflop plan is a counter-logical approach, you station a turn and river that's really bad for our range, and keeps his bombing range safe, but would fold on turns and rivers that would actually strenghten our perceived range.
Hi, thanks for the insight. I actually didn't say I'd fold KQT turns, I might well float these again and hope to get to showdown. The question put to me was what would I do after calling turn. In this case I don't see how I can call a bet on a KQT river as they hit his range well also and I'm left with 1 pair and A high as opposed to when the board pairs and I have 2 pair top kicker. I agree that looking back at it maybe he was weighted quite heavily towards pocket pairs but at the time I felt he was making a move and resolved to call him down.
I didn't have him marked as overly passive either, as I said he has already donked twice into multiway pots vs stronger ranges.
Maybe i read through the comments to quick. Still think most stands. Our opening range utg is heavily weighted towards AJ/AQ/AK/KQ 88+, as where a defending range in the sb is more pair heavy, and a couple of broadway combos, but ours are always going to be dominant versus his. He needs to be 3betting w hands like AQ/AK/TT+, although him showing up with JJ here kinda tells me he's weak-passive preflop (wants to peel and see 'a good flop'), so he might still have some bigger broadway combos too, but these become somewhat limited because we have such strong blockers.
However, when a K or a Q peels we can rep it much more in our floating range, than he can in his donkleading range, again he kinda plays his hand face up being a pocket pair here. This also means that he might choke on a K or Q turn, but even when he continues to barrel this doesnt mean we can't rep it. Calling there is only fine if we jam the river, but seeing the SPR on the turn, i prefer jamming it on the turn.
If we count our UTG combos that are pairs we have 54, of which 18 are better than jacks, however our broadway combos we open utg (ak/aq/kq) are 48, so effectively a queen or a king turn just smashes our range, and his defending range just doesn't have enough combos/cannot face enough heat on those turns.
What im trying to say is, that on this runout we can only rep 18 combos that beat him (knowing his hand obv), but on a Q turn we can add 32 more. Reversely, on this river we beat a fair lesser portion of his defending range, combined with is 3barrel oop, just makes this a mega -ev play.
Lastly, just because he has a tendancy to donklead flops, doesn't mean he didnt have a hand there too. Maybe some turns that were ugly peeled off, a lot is now speculation. I do however think that considering the nature of a sunday million, and how that caps ranges because of how straightforward most players play in it, it's really easy to understand how their betting correlates to their holding. If he didn't have a pocketpair, he'd check turn, if he donkleads again, he has a pair.
:)
p.s. not saying he's going to fold here 100% of the time, but at least we play our perceived range correctly. There's no shame in jamming effectively with air. Although i might understand that if this is way out of your comfortzone buyinwise, it becomes less attractive to do so.
Thanks, that's nicely explained. Your point about most people playing straightforwardly is helpful, I didn't see anyone get too out of line at my table certainly.
I have no worries about jamming light, I'm rolled fine for these games so that's something to consider.
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