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Raise by competent reg on ultra dry board

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

Raise by competent reg on ultra dry board

Hey,
imo this hand is pretty interesting , because it opens a lot of room for discussion what a raising range on this kind of boards could be.


No Limit Hold'em Tournament T50/T100
Buy-in: $20+$5+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit
PokerStars
9 players

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T3.495)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (T2.670)
UTG+2 - UTG+2 (T2.620)
MP - Hero (T3.090)
MP2 - MP2 (T3.225)
CO - CO (T2.630)
BTN - BTN (T2.825)
SB - SB (T3.440)
BB - BB (T2.985)

Preflop: (T150, 9 players) Hero is MP with Jh Ts
3 folds, Hero raises to T200, 2 folds, BTN calls T200, 2 folds

Flop: 7s 3d Kh (T550, 2 players - Hero: T2.890, BTN: T2.625)
Hero bets T200, BTN raises to T500, Hero calls T300

Turn: 6h (T1.550, 2 players - Hero: T2.390, BTN: T2.125)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: 7h (T1.550, 2 players - Hero: T2.390, BTN: T2.125)
Hero bets T700

I make a standard C-bet (although I think it is too big on such a dry board) and the competent reg raises me. I think he will never raise his sets there and pretty much never his Kx hands, so his range should most likely consist of ??? If we were slightly deeper I suppose he could have 54,56,64 and 86 (all suited). Here it just looks like a cheap bluff to me or he is trying to level me with a set. I float and after the Turn goes check/check I am 100% sure he was bluffing and want to make him fold his Qx and Ax hands.

What do you guys think is a sensible raising range in that spot?
I will reveal his hand after later.

9 Comments

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DkWted 12 years, 4 months ago
fold pre, fold flop, fold river
buttsexisaight 12 years, 4 months ago
Thanks for the in-depth analysis :D

As I have written this spot is quite good to talk about raising ranges on dry boards. I play a lot of HU and nowadays it is almost impossible to bluff raise such boards vs thinking regs, because they will always play back at you. I know that the normal MTT reg is making far less moves post flop than a HU player (also makes sense because of the tighter ranges), but is this is a board where you would generally have a decent bluff raising range? And if so, which hand would you do it with? Same goes for a value raising range.
z0fman 12 years, 2 months ago
i think ur leveling urself too much and mtt regs dont bluffraise these spots nearly as often as u think...also maybe if JT was suited i would open but now i agree with DkW its a standard fold...also there is a big difference between playing hu and playing mtts...no need to get overly fancy in those
Clayton Mooney 12 years, 2 months ago
I fold unsuited JT pre, too, but let's get to the range discussion for him. If he is a reg, his range can be very wide here, and I think it's a bad spot for you to do anything but fold. If you think he is bluffing, are you calling down if the turn is a J or T? What turns do you think are good for us with J high, facing a raise to a cbet? And after both checking the turn, are you representing a middle pair or flush? We don't have a King here, so I'm not sure what hands make our line of play make sense.
Chris Barker 12 years, 2 months ago
I tend to agree with what others have said - you may well be right on his raising range, but you are not going to be able to do anything about it oop with JTo, and it really is a fold pre. Perhaps what you are suggesting is the difficulty we can create by raising dry boards in position. You are so shallow that I don't think you should be trying to do anything fancy. Even deep, what is your plan for the hand?

In terms of the range I would say more weighted towards air, but it is tough to know without reads./stats?
buttsexisaight 12 years, 2 months ago
Thanks guys. I totally agree about pre (it's a fold).

Still not with you postflop. As stacks are so shallow, we can probably even discount some sets from his range, which as already mentioned he'll flat almost always. AK can also be discounted somewhat because he'd 3bet it pre pretty often. -> value range = ???

The plan here is to rebluff at some point or call at least 1 more bet if we hit a J or a T. Will be tougher if he barrels turn and river but I think I'd still go with it. We could c/shove a Q or a 9 on the turn (would also look quite strong). If we do not pick up any equity and he bets the turn we call, and lead the river (no other choice really as he could be bluffing with Qx).
Cary Pall 12 years, 2 months ago
I think he could easily have K10s-KQ in his flop value range as well as hands like 88-JJ that are trying to define their hand. And I think if he's pot controlling the turn with these, then he's calling most rivers, esp. the 7h....you shouldn't have many flushes or 7x's in your range, so I think he might look you up light here. What hands (other than air) would you play this way besides K10-KQ/AA? Overall, I just try to avoid these long-ball bluff type plays, esp. when this shallow. I'd rather c-bet/fold and move on.
Chris Barker 12 years, 2 months ago
I really don't see how this is anything other than a fold once you are raised. If you think he has air, surely you should check jam rather than either get to showdown and probably be behind even Q high? Otherwise you have to bet when you do not rep very much. I just don't see how this line is profitable.
buttsexisaight 12 years, 2 months ago
As I have written the guy is a solid reg. So he will never raise 88-JJ to "define his hand " here, because that would be simply terrible and only fish raise for information. Also I do not see him turning these hands into a bluff ever. Same goes for KT-KQ, although I might see some merit in raising KQ as we'll prolly get value from KT & KJ and maybe a pair lower than the K that might call the flop.
Still this would be a rather unorthodox line, esp. because he has a hard time deciding what to do if i continue.

Chris isn't it irrelevant whether we have JT here or say 88 if we put the guy on a bluff and want to bluff catch? Only difference is that we are obligated to put a bet in at some point with JT in contrary to 88. But that bet doesn't even have to be that big (I think also my river sizing is far too big. Something around 450-500 would've definitely been enough). I also think CiB on the flop is a valid option.

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