Lowest amount of BBs you are comfortable Raise/Folding and why
Posted by mikehunsucker
Posted by
mikehunsucker
posted in
High Stakes
Lowest amount of BBs you are comfortable Raise/Folding and why
It seems like the standard is to NEVER be raise/folding less than 15 bbs.
Obviously table dynamics, other effective stacks at the table, Aggression factor of players, etc will factor into this answer.
that being said, I would love to hear some responses and/or see some math into why its ok or bad to be raise/folding Xbbs.
thanks in advance,
MIKE
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I think it's fine to raise/fold with 15bbs. Any time you can either win the pot preflop a large enough percentage of the time to autoprofit or the combination of winning the pot preflop + realizing postflop equity is large enough you can open to not all in w/ 15bbs.
you are the math wizard here. When is it, if ever profitable to be raise/folding 12-9bbs? I would only ever be doing this from the button or sb in unopened pots. Just seems like some hands can still be raise/folded profitably from these positions. Ie: Kx, q8, etc. Can remember countless tournaments i've busted by just autoshoving hands with these stack sizes from button and sb, only to run into monsters. While I do, obv agree a shove will garner the max amount of FE, opponents are never bluff raising, and VERY rarely peeling opens from us on these shorter stacks.
be interesting to see how often these opens need to work to be profitable and what ranges they would need to profitably reshove.
i def agree. you ever raise/fold 12bbs? 10bbs? 9bbs?
I am jamming ten bb. But anything above that I sometimes raise fold. Usually only raise folding against a nit who folds a lot in the blinds. Also depends on table image, ie: jamming if I seem loose and min raising bluffs if I seem tight
There just are too many variables to have a r/f min or max bb. It's absolutely fine to r/f w 12bb on the button vs sb/bb that fold 2 steals for well over 85%. It might be a terrible mistake to r/f 15bb in other spots. Think my absolute cutoff for r/f is with 12bb, which is always going to be post ante and probably vs nits and equal stacksize distribution (i.e. shallow formats). In really rare spots on like FT bubbles or w heavy FT ICM i might even be inclined to r/f w even less.
It seems like your idea of 'standard' is inaccurate. I'd say 10bb is the number where I don't see many people raise/fold. r/f or r/c on 15bb happens often.
Think there are situations on the bubble and in satellites (particularly 3X turbos) where you can r/f a very shallow stack even from unlikely positions.
With regard to specific math, I would guess you would need to filter your database for the player pool tendencies and work through some in ICmizer. It wouldn't shock me if the absolute minimum was somewhere 9-12bb.
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