Out Now
×

JJ on the FT icm consideration,5$ buyin

Posted by

Posted by posted in Low Stakes

JJ on the FT icm consideration,5$ buyin

the guy utg+1 is a 25/8 with 3.1% 3bet
the guy on SB is a 28/21 14.3% 3bet,as CL very active but not really good
we are the third large stack with a good skill edge
given the icm consideration, and both villians can have a top range premium hand,whats the play here?what the range we push here? is raise fold a option? ty

Full Tilt, 5,000/10,000 blinds, 1,000 ante No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

MP1: 60,612 (6.1 bb)
MP2: 195,598 (19.6 bb)
MP3: 523,768 (52.4 bb)
CO: 182,836 (18.3 bb)
BTN: 316,250 (31.6 bb)
SB: 759,204 (75.9 bb)
Hero (BB): 328,732 (32.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Jc Jd
MP1 folds, MP2 raises to 40,000, 3 folds, SB calls 35,000, Hero ??


11 Comments

Loading 11 Comments...

GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
Do you have any reads on UTG+1 range when he opens 4x? Some players do this mostly with premiums.
UTG+1 has less than 20bb, unless you have a reason to think that the SB is trapping here I would shove, there is almost 100k in the pot and it is very likely you have the best hand. Your stack is not that big either.

I would gladly shove TT-AA,AK,AQs here, with a read from how they play that range might be wider or narrower.

I usually don't rase fold JJ that often, however you could consider making it 110k and then fold if both players go all-in. The downside is that the SB might call you with a hand that would've folded to a shove like AQ/KQ and outflop you, but if you think they will never flat making it 110k is the better option.
nickmao 11 years, 11 months ago
the intersting thing is ,given SB is 3betting happy and active ,the range he is calling 4x here,with eff about 20bb,is almost always traping.most middle pair and AQ+ he just shove.I dont think he can ever call pairs like 99 or KQo here.
If I was thinking more carefully, I might just fold pre.esp MP2 can have us deminated often.
Ozzy 11 years, 11 months ago
To avoid ICM trouble, I would just raise to about 90k (or maybe even click back to 70k?) with my whole range, that is TT+, AK. I would give up AQ, because of how often MP2 got AK with this sizing. I never expect MP2 to be flatting, so it's either:
-> MP2 shoves, SB shoves, we fold (unless we have KK+ I guess)
-> MP2 shoves, SB folds, we call with our whole range
-> MP2 folds, SB calls, it's not the best spot ever, but we got strong range and SPR of about 1.5. I wouldn't expect that to happen to often tho.
-> MP2 folds, SB shoves, we fold.
-> both fold.

Most of time we'll end up stacking off heads-up vs MP2, and if SB indeed was trapping we're loosing only 9bb's instead of tournament life with hand like JJ, so that's the play in my opinion.
nickmao 11 years, 11 months ago
love ur line
I didnt consider that much and just push
after mp2 fold and SB snap AA I feel I'm stupid
guess make it 90K-110K and fold to both player shove or fold to SB's shove(cause trap and icm) looks reasonable
GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
I think this line is interesting, but I see two downsides to making it 7-9x.
I think SB will not fold his KQ/AQ type hands getting such great potodds, which actually hurts you a lot if he would fold them to a shove.

If you think SB is trapping, you also need to be sure that he won't trap again by just calling his KK/AA and stacking you on low flops.

You get 2 to 1 on a shove, so you need to be sure that he does not reshove with AK/AQ here in order to confidently fold.
If you want to make a 9x/fold you put him on a polarized range, KK/AA and 77-TT,KQ,AQ. If he is really that polarized you could argue for calling also, at least it saves you a stack on A/K/Qxx flops.
Ozzy 11 years, 11 months ago
I expect SB to reshove hands like AK/AQ instead of flatting vs original raise, so I believe after calling his range is pretty polarized already.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like just folding preflop, because it's pretty tough for SB to have a range that we beat with our JJ, assuming he isn't brainless ;) This flat looks so strong, if we make it 90k like I wanted to and get called by him, we pretty much have to checkback / fold any board without a jack, so this can't really be a good play :(

If he got any hands like KQ/77 I don't expect him to ever call our squeeze oop with poor SPR, as I assume he knows how to play (decent vpip/pfr), so we shouldn't get into troublesome postflops. Any time he calls, he's trapping again I'm afraid.
GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
$5 buyin and 28/21 14.3% 3bet,as CL very active but not really good. I would not assume that he is very good and would never make laggy calls with small SPR.

It is actually quite funny, if he is trapping it must be in order to get us to ship it in wider than we would if he just shoved. I could be convinced that he would be trapping very often here if he always 3-bets and suddenly flats once he has KK/AA against a 19bb 4x open. There are a lot of microstakes wannabe Moormans like that.

But if he is near always trapping, flatting JJ costs 3bb and could win us a 70-90bb pot if we hit a set.

Be the first to add a comment

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy