ICM mistake?

Posted by AdamHendrix

Posted by AdamHendrix posted in Mid Stakes

Posted 12 years, 3 months ago

ICM mistake?

SB: Jon Doe: 0
BB: Player1 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 23, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 39: 30124
UTG: Player2 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 1.7, Hands: 92: 71882
UTG1: Player3 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 12, 3B: 7, AF: 1.7, Hands: 191: 383804
UTG2: Player4 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 0.0, Hands: 54: 64660
UTG3: Player5 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 19, 3B: 8, AF: 2.0, Hands: 63: 171670
LJ: Player6 - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 9: 132296
HJ: Player7 - VPIP: 12, PFR: 5, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 42: 54466
CO: Hero - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 70559: 118411
BN: Player9 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 13, 3B: 9, AF: 3.8, Hands: 96: 66687

Preflop (7500) (9 Players)

Jon Doe was dealt 4 4
Jon Doe folds, Jon Doe folds, Jon Doe folds, Jon Doe folds, Jon Doe folds, Jon Doe raises to 117911, Jon Doe calls 66187, Jon Doe folds, Jon Doe folds

Flop (191598) K Q 9 (2 Players)

Turn (191598) 3 (2 Players)

River (191598) K (2 Players)

Final Pot

Jon Doe wins 51724 , Jon Doe wins 144374

This is the very first hand of the final table. The field is pretty soft, and I feel as if I have a good edge over them. I have been pretty active, but have not been to showdown a lot.

1st pays 1.1k and 9th pays 115$. I am 4th in chips. Due to ICM and all other factors do you think this play with 44 is still good?

In any other stage in a tournament I do this, and find it to be standard. But can we fold here knowing that the 3 players to the left of us are very short, and we can move up the pay ladder without playing many hands?

17 Comments

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Schu 12 years, 3 months ago

not a good play in my humble O... first hand final table and you're shoving with 4/4? it think this is somewhat hopeful in this spot, and while you may get folks to fold based on the fact that this is the first hand... what do you hope to accomplish by doing this?

AdamHendrix 12 years, 3 months ago

The stack sizes are very shallow. Average stack was 18 BB. And shoving here, I get a lot of folds and pick up a lot of chips, antes included. I hope to put pressure on the 3 short stacked players to the left of me. As they are all <=10 BB

nukac0la 12 years, 3 months ago

I would argue that your fold equity is roughly the same with a main raise or slightly larger. You took a pretty high variance line imo.

Schu 12 years, 3 months ago

there is no indication in your OP on blinds

buttsexisaight 12 years, 3 months ago

ansolutely standard? You can r/f a lot of hands here, but I would always jam small - mid PPs,

packallama 12 years, 3 months ago

Totally Standard. Would never think twice about shoving 44 in that spot.

Grayson Ramage 12 years, 3 months ago

I would definitely shove here, it is certainly profitable, since everyone left to act is shorter than you they should be calling tighter than normal due to ICM. Even if they are not aware of this it is still a good shove, and I prefer shoving to r/f'ing or open-folding.

AdamHendrix 12 years, 3 months ago

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I am also very interested in what the lowest combination we should be showing up with here? Thanks

cold7betfold 12 years, 3 months ago

22+ Ax+ K2s+ K3o+ Q2s+ Q6o+ J2s+ J7o+ T3s+ T7o+ 95s+ 97o+ 85s+ 87o 74s+ 64s+ 53s+.
(I took a payout of 1100,900,750,600,500,400,300,200,115)
SB should call if we shove: TT+
BB: 44+ A2s+ A3o+ K7s+ K9o+ Q9s+ QTo+ JTs.

Sarosh Mir 12 years, 3 months ago

if the players afters you in this hand is good thinking players/tighten up their range cuz of icm FT / I will prefer R/F, you have good stack and can wait for much better spots then this, cuz if you push in best case ur flipping and only add 7,5k to 117.5k. 6 way action i would definitely shove.

computerscreen 12 years, 3 months ago

I see you with 22bbs, a bu with 13bbs, a sb with 0 bb????, and a bb with about 6bbs. With no prior history here shoving any hand is a leak.

weezy 12 years, 2 months ago

Can you post the actual HH. If so I'll run it through wiz and find the results. My guess is shoving 44 from the c/o with 23bbs wiz no likey.

computerscreen 12 years, 2 months ago

what you said here is a leak too imo.

weezy 12 years, 1 month ago

Are you saying that shoving 23bbs from the cutoff is a good idea?
Well, if the other stacks are shorter, which it seems they are, it could be Jam. however, if they were all at 23bbs, i would have to say it's a standard fold.

z0fman 12 years, 2 months ago

the hh is kinda messed up in this one but from the stack sizes i can see behind u i think its a pretty clear and standard shove

AdamHendrix 12 years, 2 months ago

Sorry Ill try to find the hh again, and repost later tonight. Been away from the forums and havent had a chance.

weezy 12 years, 1 month ago

Any luck finding that HH?

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