final 3 w/Andy Mcleod

Posted by

Posted by posted in High Stakes

final 3 w/Andy Mcleod

Cant get the HH feature to work so Ill do it manually...

final three 109c Turbo.. Payouts:
1. 12515.40
2. 9180
3. 6915.60

Andy BTN 30BBs
Me SB 36BBs
Maxim Lykov reg 26BBs

We have 55. BTN raises 2BBs and its up to us...

In these spots where IR is a v.good player it sucks to do anything..
- rejamm its to easy to range us.
- 3b/c sucks
- 3b/f sucks
- fold is nitty/sucks
- call is horrible..

So which sucky play do you like best???......

20 Comments

Loading 20 Comments...

Grayson Ramage 12 years, 3 months ago
Although it sucks when you are called, I think shoving is best. James is definitely opening the button very wide and shoving will definitely show a profit. James also can't be calling your shove as wide as normal due to icm.
James Obst 12 years, 3 months ago
sorry i'm not quite sure what you mean, how are you playing A5s here? A9o?

If your range is just 22-66 I probably need 55+ to call, AK would need to be in the muck, maybe TJs becomes close. I did think you'd be shoving the aforementioned hands though for similar reasons, and indeed wider.
Randy (rh300487) 12 years, 3 months ago
a ok. you mean Ax handes. I read aces as AA...

Ax i rather 3b/c or 3b/f in those spots.

Well. for me personally I prefer to play poker w.30BBs then jamm pfai parties :) so ill probably only jamm 22-66 there. I dont care if its exploitable or not because I wont do it in many spots (final 3 is different then 27 left at a full ring table) and results won't really change (88+ calls anyway)
James Obst 12 years, 3 months ago
Oh I got you. Yeah I agree absolutely in general with what you're saying and your ranges, though I feel they change when ICM becomes relevant. I think you can shove wider and if you give the initiative back to me by just normal size 3betting a lot of your range (and I'd know you're planning to 3b/fold a lot) then you're not fully utilising the ICM advantages of being CL in this spot (I can potentially shove back wider on you than I could call your shoves). Not saying I'm right though, that's just why I would have expected you to have a lot of bad aces in your range (and why I called with ATs).
Randy (rh300487) 12 years, 3 months ago
def, but i dont hate playing with a 30BBs stack and take it over overshove aggression.. I dont think its necessary and you can get as much $EV in the long run and lower variance, not doing that.

If I feel im totally outclassed I could justify those moves.
James Obst 12 years, 3 months ago
I'm interested to take this a bit further - you're CL 3 handed on an FT, you're entitled to be the most active player until that changes. If you have almost a statistically irrelevant shoving range (22-66, what's that, like 2% of hands?), that means your 3b range, if you want to play a lot of hands as you should, is going to be extremely wide. This means I can confidently 4b shove back on you wider than usual (if it wasn't an FT you wouldn't be 3betting as many hands to begin with). Now, if you want to get away with this, you have to really open up your 3b/calling range. Don't forget if you're the one facing shoves ICM is still very relevant to you here too since you'd be a clear short stack if I double through you. So really, from an ICM standpoint, you actually can't open your 3b/calling range much, meaning you actually can't have a super wide 3betting range to begin with (unless they're shoves). The only way you can get away with playing a lot of hands would be to shove all your marginals that are profitable to do so and 3betting bad hands and premiums, against which I no longer can be confident in 4bet shoving wide. Does that make any sense?
Randy (rh300487) 12 years, 3 months ago
Yes! I very much like this post.

But I feel like you still end up calling marginal hands vs shoves and then my equity and ability to do so goes down (look you called ATs. Im sure you won't fold KQs or A8s). So if you adjust already by calling lighter (which I assume you would do) then does shoving extremely loose become that profitable at all???

It's not like I can put so much pressure on you and you are afraid to make calls because of money. If a random person is sitting there, it's a different story.

With the current line-up I feel that being to loose with my shove range there would result in a higher variance way to make the same money I can make doing with less swings (which is a big +, especially in a HS turbo MTT.

You agree?

PS: I really like your post/thoughts but please use enters to make it a lot easier to go over your post :).
James Obst 12 years, 3 months ago
Actually i think this is the bottom of my calling range unless you are really overdoing it but I have to do some math work on that. Yeah obviously you can't shove 50% of hands or anything but you should be able to get away with more with a wider shove range, don't forget if your small 3b range is wide the BB can exploit you in the same way also

Be the first to add a comment

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy