Extracting maximum value from a set deepstacked, multiway, out of position, with flush draw on board
Posted by ZlotZ
Posted by
ZlotZ
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Low Stakes
Extracting maximum value from a set deepstacked, multiway, out of position, with flush draw on board
BB: 9,653 (Hero)
UTG: 7,487
UTG+1: 9,089
MP: 16,531
MP+1: 9,992
CO: 6,300
BN: 10,218
I'm so unsure what to do on the flop in this spot!
We have many options:
1)Donklead
PROS: We know that an ace is never folding to a Donklead on the flop. We could take the lead on the flop and bet out the three streets out of position.
CONS: We miss value from cbet-bluffs, if nobody has an Ace the hand will probably end on the flop with no more chip extraction. Also we give correct odds for the flush draw.
It's difficult to balance vs good players, since I don't see myself donkleading with air or with flush draw, since it is so likely that at least one of them have an Ace and won't fold.
2)Check/call
PROS: Disguises the hand. Also mixes (balance) with what I think I should do with a flush draw: having a strong flush draw, I'd just call to keep the pot multiway on the turn in order to maximize my implied odds when I hit the flush.
CONS: Holding the actual trips, we risk seeing another heart on the turn, which in the worst case could lead us to loose a big pot, or in the best case to minimize our chip extraction, because people will fear the flush.
3)Checkraise all in (>2x pot overshove)
PROS: Makes it easy to play the hand, eliminating the positional disadvantage. Could be interpreted as a
draw or some sort of sick bluff, and could get calls from good Ax hands . Gives incorrect odds for people holding the flush draw to call.
CONS: Some people might actually fold good Ax hands like AQ/AK to this huge bet. Also stops the aggressor from bluffing later streets.
4)Checkraise to 2400 (like I did in the actual hand)
PROS: Doesn't look so massive like the overshove. Should keep the flushdraws on the pot, maybe can induce shoves by them. People holding 2-pair will also likely shove. Sometimes people holding AK/AQ will still continue, but not many times.
CONS: Looks extremely strong in a 3bet pot vs 2 people that already showed interest in an A-high flop. Looks exactly like what it is: a flopped set. Could get folds by people holding a hand as strong as AK.
CONS for all "check" options: It could be checked down to a turn and we risk giving a free card to the flush drawer.
Any thoughts? So many options, all with their pros and cons... which line should be best vs different types of opponents?
Thanks!
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Interesting spot. I would say this depends on what kind of stakes you play, with that i mean if you play micro stakes you dont really need to balance your play so much. But if you play the highest stakes you really need to think furhter.
But in this scenario at a low-micro stake mtt i would do as you did i think, but afterall i think a shove looks much weaker and in a micro stake mtt you could easy get value from just an bad Ace. And now you going multi-way its more often somebody has an Ace or a really good flushdraw that they want to go for.
I would say an all in would work fine against aggressive players and not so good against the tighter. And specielly when its multi-way and you can get called in more spots.
In a heads-up situtation i would go for the raise, 3x or 2.5x. Just so i can easy get it in on river.
Conclusion:
I would go for the all-in in this spot, just because its looks weaker and its multi-way.
Please note,
Im new at this forum, from sweden, not a proffesional player.
But im trying to get better.
/anjouvis
Seems fine, this is a board where its tough to barrel 2 streets as a bluff if a draw doesn't come in, so your opponent will likely shut down on the turn anyway if a draw doesn't come in. So I wouldn't worry about folding out your opponents range by check/raising. I think leading is the worst option as you fold out potential bluffs and weak showdown value which may call on later streets. By check/raising you get to extract more value from the nutted hands and get more control on a potentially scary board later on.
I think the ch/r is the best play in that spot as well, and you went trought the possible options yourself very good.
If you know your opponents well and there is at least one calling station / fish, the ch/shove could be the better option though.
Depending on how the villain has been playing throughout, ch/raise or ch/shove works out good. Noticing his 5 bet raise from the button almost makes me think he was trying to protect something like a pair of TT or something smaller. And the fact he didn't call or re-raise you after your ch/raise on the flop with an A on board doesn't lead me to think he had something like AK, AQ or AJ and if he had one of those hands suited that matched the flop he would be shoving after your ch/raise. But like I said from the start, depending on his play throughout will lead you to a better decision and I think you made the right one.
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