AQs UTG, final 6 of $27.50, facing min 3bet from MP and SB cc, 39BB behind

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AQs UTG, final 6 of $27.50, facing min 3bet from MP and SB cc, 39BB behind

BN: 322646
SB: 270738
BB: 620871
UTG: 286366
HJ: 210637
CO: 523742
Preflop (10500) (6 Players)
UTG raises to 14000, HJ folds, CO raises to 29999, BN folds, SB calls 26499, BB folds

MP had a VPIP 41%, PFR 31%, 10% 3bet for the 4 most recent levels up to these blinds.  We're now short-handed, may be opening his range but I can say that for the next few levels it remained around the same.

SB cold call was from a weak 22/11 with Call 3bet of 17%

We have 39BB behind facing a min 3bet in for a total of 4BB.  I've already worked out that this is a +EV shove per se, but the fact that it's shoving 39BB to win 12 against a min 3bet of 4BB really limits his range to call.  Giving a reasonable range of 99+/AQ+ puts us at 40% equity leaving nothing in his range better than a flip.

I'm currently in disagreement with people who think that 4bet to 10BB and folding a shove is terrible (leaving us at 28-30BB which isn't much different than 40) and they either prefer to 4bet shove or 4bet/call.

Any thoughts?  Wasn't the reason NL tournies have moved towards these smaller raises is to be able to make these types of moves instead of gii pf?




6 Comments

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Degnovic 11 years, 2 months ago

As you say yourself this could very well be a marginally +EV shove. However I agree with you that 4bet/folding isn't necessarily bad, though I still prefer 4bet shoving. 

I don't like 4bet/calling though. I think I would go for a call right here and now to these odds re-evaluate flop. This isn't really an option given what you've written above. Good/bad?

gradx 11 years, 2 months ago

I ran the ICM for this situation and giving 14% 3bet and 14% cold call, we need JJ+/AK+ as a profitable shove with a calling range of 99+/AQ+ for CO and JJ+/AK+ for SB.    Like you, I don't like 4bet/call because villain shouldnt have any worse A in his range.  Calling is certainly an option


hoolgrandma 11 years, 2 months ago

Agree...clear call here imo - we are not gonna get called by worse if we shove 

I dont like 4betting tho because we will not fold out a better hand

gradx 11 years, 2 months ago

4 betting should at minimum should fold out hands like 88,99,AT/AJ and maybe even AQ that wouldn't play well vs our range unless they flop set/2pr

and it becomes a range play to not allow us the be exploited by wider 3 bets

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