4 Players left from 1000+ players in $200 buy-in online event: Turn Push or check/fold with marginal holding?

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4 Players left from 1000+ players in $200 buy-in online event: Turn Push or check/fold with marginal holding?

Hi all,

my first post here :)

Payouts are:
32k
24k
17k
13k

stacks are
Villain CU 78bb
BU 45bb
SB 24bb
Hero BB 27bb, holds Qc3c

Villain is raising as chip leader basically every hand, getting a lot of folds. he cbets close to 85%

Villain raises to 2bb, folds, Hero calls for 1bb
Flop: 3s7h2c
Hero bets 2bb, Villain raises 5bb, hero calls
Turn: 8c
Hero Shoves ~18bb

Wrong/Right? :)

I will not post his hand for the moment to not bias the discussion.

Thank you, looking forward to learn here a lot!

Peter

11 Comments

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Juan L 6 years, 4 months ago

Interesting spot. I think I would normally call this turn . We have some SD value and don't think we are actually getting any better hands to fold. Villain might decide to bluff clubs on the river, we can always make some hero calls with our 3x and they might give up; there are lots of ways to still win the hand. I think that main thing we accomplish by shoving is just making the hand easier to play.

Pedro Madeira 6 years, 4 months ago

hey mate, wellcome!

This hand is very interesting as we have to consider ICM. Without it I know your play is perfectly fine, x/r otf to denny equity and jamm the turn as we pick lots of it ourselves. I'm running it on PIO to compare cEV to $EV spot and I will post the result here.

Pedro Madeira 6 years, 4 months ago

So, in theory software doesn't x/r this specific combo neither in cEV or $EV, it rather use hands such as A3 or K3, instead it donks Q3. And ott, after x/raising a range such A3cc or K3cc, it goes for a very small bet, ~1/4 and call a shove, or just x/c the shove.
But it does not mean your play is bad, it does make money but it's just not the most lucrative play.
Anyway, in fine with the line you chose.

90020590 6 years, 3 months ago

Thx for your comments. Did I understand it correctly that the solver would donk the flop like I did? Does the software consider the the high c-betting frequency of villain? I got other feedback, that said because of that I should have checked the flop.
My mistake on the turn was that I was thinking that I have some fold equity, but that was wrong. What hands that raise the flop can I make fold? None, except pure bluffs.

So I dont understand, why I should x/shove. What would be the rationale behind it? x/call certainly, If I have the odds.

Pedro Madeira 6 years, 3 months ago

Solver would have led the flop if it was a cEV scenario, in a $EV in always x/c.
Regards to the line ott, x/shove as after he bets, due to the equity you will have when your draw hits and the pot of the size, you won't have much room to do anything else, unless he bets 1/3.

betgo 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't like donking the flop against the aggressive chip leader with bottom pair.

I don't understand why x/shove rather than shove on turn with less than pot left. Do solvers handle short stacked situations well?

betgo 6 years, 3 months ago

I still don't understand. There is 19xBB in the pot and we have 18xBB left. There is hardly room to c/shove. Villain may push make a bet that is committing .It is clear he meant villain raised 5xBB, to 7xBB, not raised to 5xBB OTF. Did you put the right information in.

The flop play seems horrible. As the solver indicated, it is OK to lead this flop in general, but not in this situation versus an aggressive chip leader. Not sure you can call the flop raise. Also, villain is likely to raise, and you want to control the pot size, and not wind up playing for stacks as occurred.

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