3r defending AJs
Posted by hoolgrandma
Posted by
hoolgrandma
posted in
Mid Stakes
3r defending AJs
HJ: 13290
CO: 10059
BN: 12522
SB: 10548
BB: 9471
UTG: 14047
UTG1: 7153 (Hero)
UTG2: 15299
LJ: 26163
CO: 10059
BN: 12522
SB: 10548
BB: 9471
UTG: 14047
UTG1: 7153 (Hero)
UTG2: 15299
LJ: 26163
Preflop
(375)
(9 Players)
Hero was dealt
A
J
UTG folds, Hero raises to 500, UTG2 folds, LJ folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN raises to 1250, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls 750
UTG folds, Hero raises to 500, UTG2 folds, LJ folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN raises to 1250, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls 750
villian seemed to be an agressive reg, so i think AJs is a defend here? hes on the button so he can easily have a wide bluffingrange
Flop
(2875)
4
6
9
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
BN bets 1625,
Hero folds
we flop literally nothing so i just fold
Final Pot
BN
wins 3235
villian 21/17 10% 3bet 150hands
Loading 17 Comments...
His Bluffing Range SHrinks Up When We Are Raising FrOm Such Early Position. The Problem Defending AJ OOP Is Exactly What Happened In The Hand. We Have To Give Up On So Many Flops, And We Have Serious Reverse Implied Odds. We Are Also Too Shallow To Be Flatting 3 Bets Imo.
Not Saying Its The Best Option In This Spot, But I Think 4 Bet Or Fold MigHt Be A Better Play Preflop With This HanD If We Want To Continue.
Think our best options vs villains like this in the current setup in non chronological order is 4b/f 4b/c 4bs or fold. Yes we keep his range wider when we flat, but we prob only get one street out of him post if we hit and he doesn't hit better, and i'm afraid that's not going to happen enough of the times as a peel to become profitable. Unless we are x/s a lot of boards that just don't hit his perceived wide 3bet range, there's an argument for doing so, but if our plan is check giveup when we miss, i don't think we can convert this play into being +cEV enough. I would obv defend IP, but OOP im more inclined to either fold or 4b w all possible outcomes.
i dont think that we can get better hands to fold with our 4b so it doesnt make sense to me, position isnt that important either because of the low spr
It isn't really about getting better hands to fold - agreed that won't happen.
It's about not letting an aggro reg 3 bet a polarized range vs. us and win a lot of flops with a simple cbet since we're playing OOP.
Like Cairy said, we can flat and keep his 87s and 97s, and T9s type hands in his range but those hands also flop pretty well and we won't have any idea where we are at in the hand when we don't pair on the flop and face what is likely to be a cbet at a frequency of 100% from the button.
If I've seen this guy 3b his button vs EP and MP opens already I'm just going to stick my pile of chips right in his face.
10% 3b is decent but really says nothing much overall. Some people only reach 10% by 3 betting their premiums and then 3 betting LP opens.
Lastly, unless we also mix in flatting our premiums like QQ+ it's worth noting that we probably narrow our range far more than we should vs. a competent reg and then we are not only playing OOP but giving him a lot of info to work with.
I really don't understand what's so hard to get. You play a hand oop in a 3bet pot vs an aggro reg that will fire 100% cbet on button, if ure only plan is connect to gii it's a losing proposition. We just don't connect often enough for us to make this play without having any contingency plan but folding. Like i said, if u're openshoving/leading or check shoving a lot of flops as a backup to actually make this defend +cEV i'd advocate on doing so. (not even mentioning the RIO's of top pairs etc)
But if ure folding on 469r while that flop is as bad for his range as yours, then you shouldn't be defending 3bets in the first place. When i looked at this hand I was hoping you x/s or would lead/shove this flop, because its a great board to do so. There are so many combos of hands he needs to fold here, vs like 36 pair combos that will call/continue, and even vs those we have equity most of the times.
Also, for future posts, mentioning the 3bet% alone isn't enough, some people 3bet like 2% on all positions bar the button, where they 3bet like 28%. So I usually always check the actual position they 3bet from, and usually that gives additional information.Bottom line is, if you're only playing fit or fold, you will never make any profit in defending 3bets oop.
Also, forgot to mention. This is from the 3r, i mean entire table is usually filled w easy spots, so i just play a pretty standard (linear) valuerange to chip up, and avoid getting into wars with anyone better than the usual players. I've FT'ed it like 3 or 4 times, and had numerous deeps in it, it's just so easy to chip up in there, no need to get in leveling wars at all.
+1 to all the comments. If we are going to defend here "to keep his bluffs in" then we need to do it with more of a plan than hoping he has a dominated A or J and the flop hits us both, because that won't happen often.
You could lead this flop which is poor for us, or check shove any similar one with 1+ clubs and/or a gutshot. (Might not be a perfect plan - but it's a plan.)
This is a well played hand by OP.
I dont wanna be a nuissance, but i really have to ask you why you think so. Above posters made argument for otherwise, and i cant see much reason to do as you advised and as OP played, if that is a good play, can you please explain me why, i would like to know
I explained my thoughts a lil above...we are not getting to fold better hands with the 4bet but he has a quite high 3bet percentage so that he should have some suited Axs we dominate (and some SCs) ..position also isnt that important because the spr is pretty low...@cairy we dont really have to hit every bosrd because the odds pre are pretty good
So again if our only plan when defending 3bets oop is to fit or fold, and not play our entire range we defend with, I think you lose value here.
i think this could be fine for a few reasons described above, hes going to cb a ton, we build big pots when we hit, we are potentially calling because we know hes an aggressive reg so we can exploit that vs his wider range in position. even though were oop, we can still make adjustments postflop so we arent always c/fing but even if we do, i think its still really close to break even if not +ev if we do just c/f flops. when we do hit, we can let him valuetown us, etc giving us implied odds. just my perspective.also dont think 4b/f could be awful, just definitely not as often as calling.
We are getting good odds to defend our 3B and we have a hand in the top 35-40% of our opening range. It's both a game theory and raw equity mistake to fold preflop.
We're < 30 bb effective - that was my main reasoning for shoving. Not to mention there is close to 2k in the middle and I think this particular villain folds frequently enough to a 4b jam and then we add a lot to our stack uncontested.
I wouldn't make an inducing size - I'd just go all in since we have about 28 bb to begin the hand
Our hand is way too strong to 4b/f, both because it's too strong to bluff with and because once you 4b you probably can't fold to a shove.
Thank you very much for answers Sam, makes a lot of sense, yet, im just so unhappy wiith all our options
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