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30r- hand against flush_entity

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

30r- hand against flush_entity

UTG1: 8584 (Hero)
LJ: 4602
HJ: 7760
CO: 8520
BN: 6328
SB: 7187
BB: 5968
UTG: 7911
Preflop (180) (8 Players)
Hero was dealt Q A
UTG folds, Hero raises to 240, LJ folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN calls 240, SB folds, BB calls 120
Flop (780) A 3 2 (3 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets 352, BN calls 352, BB calls 352
Turn (1836) A 3 2 T (3 Players)
BB bets 1185, Hero calls 1185, BN folds
River (4206) A 3 2 T K (2 Players)
BB bets 1980, Hero folds
Final Pot
BB wins 4286

flush entity is the bb. if you guys could comment on my my play here against his unorthodox line i would appreciate . thanks

8 Comments

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kilphil1975 11 years, 2 months ago

If he is bluffing that is a bluff with big cohones into two people one of which raised from UTG and the other flatted the cbet. My feeling is that this is not often a bluff line, but more often a line for value in which case you have to wonder when he donkbets pretty big into 2 people on the turn what is he betting for value and is AQ ever still good ? My feeling is no so I lean towards a fold there especially with the other guy still to act.


However if you feel that your AQ is still good on the turn I think you must call river as well. Ak will 3b squeeze pre a lot, sure he might flat some pct of the time, but I think AK might raise flop in stead of c/c and then lead. So in my opinion is that the K doesnt hit his range much at all and doesnt change enough to warrant a fold now.


What it comes down to is the feeling how likely he is to be bluffing with air or a FD maybe in this situation if you think that is a good pct of the time I would call both turn and river. If not I think a fold on turn is best.


Andre Bilenky 11 years, 2 months ago

yeh, i agree that is not a great spot to bluff from his perspective and the only bluffs he can have here are FDs imo. think it must have been an exploitative play from his part , leading with 100% value (2pair +) .  i should fold that turn  as you said , and i agree that k river is a blank for his range unless he has exactly QJcc so bad played hand from me . thanks for the comment anyways!!

dablancninja 11 years, 2 months ago

I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself saying you played it bad. I actually think the call on the turn is fine IP, despite BN behind, and assess the river.

You would of thought if BN had flush draw he would have called turn as well so not sure what he was floating (AJ?) and because we know that flush_entity is so good can't we say his range to 22, 33, AT, KTcc and QJcc exactly given we have all the info in the hand? (I don't think he plays A2,A3 like this) I think it's unlikely he leads out QJcc or plays KTcc this way into 2 opponents also.

So IMO it's 22,33,AT so yes you can fold turn but in the heat of the battle, with a strong hand and only 30 secs to make a decsion, a call isn't atrocious. It's a defiantly a fold on river OR if you wanted to be a sicko you could turn it into a bluff and shove repping AK, QJcc. I think he shows up with a set too much though which he isn't folding.

 

...Hang on 45s in his range too that he didn't want to raise get it in on the flop? The more you think about it the bigger the fold is on the turn :) One thing is for sure - he isn't bluffing or semi bluffing imo


Sam Grafton 11 years, 2 months ago

I would fold turn also. When we go 3 way to the turn he knows we and the btn going to check back everything that isn't a set so leading is imperative to get value and charge people to realise their equity. HOWEVER the responses here and the way you played the hand show that it's a great way to play a flush-draw, particularly won which contains the ten of clubs and maybe Griff is already on this level. 

Andre Bilenky 11 years, 2 months ago

He had a perfect stack to shove river, why would he go so small when he has or nuts or missed fd?  (The pot size is bigger on all streets , the antes are not being counted here)

Jason Koon 11 years, 2 months ago

I don't understand his turn lead at all. The 10 does nothing for his range, if you're not opening A10 or 45s from utg+1 you're damn near the top of your range and I wouldn't consider folding at any point in this hand. If you start folding AQ and AK in this spot you are just getting owned long run. Remember calling and losing isn't necessarily a bad thing, when people know you are going to look them up often it will protect you from being over-bluffed. Tournaments have a way of warping our brains to think that  if we call and lose we made a mistake. Calling and losing is a generally a much smaller mistake than habitually folding the top of your range. Also, you don't have a club blocker in your hand which is really relevant. Having the Q of c in your hand would take away a bunch of his flush draw combos and weight him more towards made hands so AQ no club is a better bluff catcher. 

Andre Bilenky 11 years, 2 months ago

I get what your saying. But i think the general player pool in mtts dont fold much at all. People get exploited by never folding , esp early in tournaments wheres theres not really any pressure . I think his leading is an explo play in a spot he probably never figures to have fold equity, that said i think we can exploit him by over folding here , of course with some history this should change.  Please correct me if my mindset is way off here...

Justin Marsh 11 years, 2 months ago

Andre, its a tough and dangerous game to try to counter exploit an extremely good player esp when you arent confident on what he is doing.

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