i dont think we can call pre because our little info on either by calling.. this is a spot im 3betting, because this to me will allow me to collect info to further play better vs these opponents. if we begin to assume hes only raising small % of his range here we then know a call is more valuable due to position and if i were calling in this spot id much rather have sc,axs, etc because these play well in multiway pots.. just an example of a way to begin exploiting our opponents by calling. now if we decide to call here we face a few problems, were in a fit/fold situation vs someone who calls pf with 50% of hands and an unknown utg range and another probably wide range(short sample but no flop agg seen yet)(which we can for the most part put together closely what it would be just am on a tablet.) and our call induced sb in. furthermore our aq has little value in spots like these whereas if we 3b we can establish these unknown ranges, get value for our hand when we know the 50/16 guy is still likepy to call wider then he should, get utg to jam/fold a ton of hands pf, but we dont want a multiway pot in this specific situation with these players.

as played, once we hit top pair here, we are still clueless but we do obtain a lot of info when we click back here, we face sb with a decision thats more important, fold/call/jam and in that answer we can then assume a lot of things. when he folds its good for us, when he calls we can put together a few things, he didnt jam he didnt fold, so what hands call that dont raise with this board texture. etc. i wasnt expecting to do all this, wish i had a computer atm to throw up some ranges, im just not doing that on a tablet, its slowenough.

on the turn, honestly your behind when he jams a lot here, he could have the capability to jam on you with qx hands but in the same sense i wouldnt want a 3way ai situation withlittle info on these guys with tp with how this hand played out, i just dont see you being good enough times here.

I really doubt I am ever folding here. We're so severely under-repped, for starters. No one is putting you on a hand this strong. 

If you're folding TPTK w/a draw to the nuts I think you could very well be folding way too much in general.

It takes a pretty big cooler here to get us and we still have outs to the nuts. 

true also agree with this, didnt see blocker. but i still dont think we win 1/6 here vs what we can assume is going to be 2 pretty typical rangees, we can assume sb he has 2pair+, small combo of hands he jams the turn behind you with including a small amount of pair+draw and combo draw, utg could be wide due to his stack. or are you assuming he calling the flop with kq qj a lot and jamming turn? imo if we call here were either gonna have to assume a passive player plays his tp like this, i just dont see him being outrageously out of line here like be overly confident with top pair. just my opinion.

correct, i just dont see him showing up with less then that and even if occassionally we have the better hand here we still are early in the tournament and dont think that this is a spot im happy about shipping my stack. in this spot, he can have worse im not questioning that. im more concerned with getting it in on the turn with tp+overcard and fd giving our opponents no fe and our passive player showing agression. to me, your claiming were not gonna win a lot without the nfd with 1 card to come. when he jams this isnt the same as when we could assume our opponent is going to do this wide to iso shorty, because with a lot of his drawy hands hes prolly flatting, hes passive. imo hes there and if not, hes there a ton.