Close EP opens
Posted by bambi99333
Posted by
bambi99333
posted in
From The Ground Up PLO
Close EP opens
I've been reviewing my EP opens recently and found a few hands which I think are very in the middle of RFI or Fold:
AKQ6 (KSS): We should avoid Naked AKxx Rainbow hands, but this hand is SS and has a Q for extra connectivity however the dangling 6 makes this hand a lot weaker, and not being suited to the A could get us into trouble.
7766DS: This is a fairly low double pair but I think it makes up for that in perfect connectivity and being double suited however making flushs or straights with this hand could get me into trouble as it will often be a low straight/flush, also set over set coolers will happen more often playing low pairs. Would I have to play this hand super passively post flop, and if so what would be the point in opening it if it's so hard to get value when this hand hits, and it isn't blocking any opponent calls/3bets?
T877DS: I opened this hand but looking back I think it is more of a fold, the pair in the hand is low and the gap is at the top of the hand which can lead to drawing to the non-nut straight. Hands like TT97DS and T997DS seem like good candidates to open however, would I be correct in assuming this?
I also want to leave my weakest AAxx hands, as I'm fairly certain we should be opening all AAxx but these are some real bottom of the barrel hands: AA63r + AAQ3 3S
Any feedback on the hands and my assumptions would be greatly appreciated thanks!
Loading 4 Comments...
Vision pots AKQ6 if there is an A high or K high suit so AKQ6 (Kss) is an open. However it does fold if sss.
Vision pots all 7766, ds, ss and rainbow which surprised me. It also pots all 7755, 7744. It pots 7733 ds and ss but folds r and pots 7722 ds but folds ss and r.
Vision pots T877ds but folds any ss, sss, r. It also pots T997ds and TT97ds and a few of the ss combinations.
I believe vision assumes GTO play from all and a zoom 500 rake structure therefore we should be playing tighter in the low and micro stakes. So because I am new to this and not having the best post flop skills in the world I would be a bit tighter if in doubt. I think these hands are all marginal from EP so there won't be a huge amount of difference in ev between opening and folding. If I feel that I have an advantage post flop especially if I am not too worried about being pushed of marginal hands by bluffs or hands that are weaker I would tend to open them but if I feel out gunned post flop I fold these.
I agree with pretty much all your thinking except about having to play 7766 passively post flop. There are many times you might have to if you are multiway with overcards on a straightening board with a flush draw etc but there will also be times you hit top set with a straight and/or flush draw when you can be more aggressive. Middle and bottom sets are tricky.
Take all of this with a pinch of salt because I'm new to PLO and far from an expert.
I also welcome any advise or criticism of my opinions.
Thanks for the reply Mike, I've been playing around with random.org and some ranges I imported into odds oracle and have found I am heavily undervaluing DS hands especially ones with an A in them hands like AT86$DS or AJ53$DS which I would normally just throw in the bin have been coming out as clear pots. it's something I'm going to try and focus on during my next few sessions. I'm really new as well but was also surprised by how much solver ranges value $DS hands
The only hand that is an open out of the above is 7766 ds. About 3/4 of your UTG RFI range should have an ace.
For the hands headed by an ace: most of the broadway pairs with an ace are opens. Most of the Ace hi single pairs with a suited ace that are 3 gapped or less are opens. All of the 4 cards 9+ single and triple are opens. Almost all of the AJT8 type stuff are opens. Almost all of the double suited Ace hi hand with another broadway are opens (with the exception of hands that have a 2 or a 3 in them.) Most of the A[k-t][9-6][9-6] unpaired w a suited ace are opens. Last but not least, having a 2 or a 3 in your hand is almost every bit as detrimental to your utg rang (really even up through the co) as having an ace is beneficial. You need to avoid 2s and 3s like cancer with the exception of some of the single and double suited pairs and double suited AKQ2/AJT2/AQJ2 type stuf. Even hands like AKJ2/AQT3 suited to the ace and unblocking the k/q hi draw is a fold in most games.
The rest of the range should consist of double suited highly connected hands (2 gaps or less if not ace high, 1 gap or less if less than 2 broadways), double suited kings, double/single/triple suited TT+ with 1 gap or less (slightly more than 1 gap for KK, very very slightly more than 1 gap for QQ), pure rundowns single suited T high and higher, A few other heuristics that are useful: no rainbow or monotone unpaired hands. All pairs below TT need either a suited ace or another pair (playing middle and bottom set is just incredibly tough to do profitably 3 ways first to act.) Hope this helped.
I'm working on the same topic. I can't afford monker and don't have odds oracle. I'm using upswings free preflop charts to get an idea of solver ranges. I also think, it's stupid that the videos tell you to play a GTO range discarding some opens, but doesn't really tell you, what that baseline GTO range looks like.
Anyways: One hand that came up for me, was (A5)(84) UTG. Extrapolating from the charts this should be a GTO open.
I play 5PLO and in this particular game had 2 VIP recs behind me, aswell as another passive rec. I normally fold these, because of the topgap.
Playing around with PPT, this hand doesn't push equity against even very wide ranges headsup and only has a tiny equity edge in multiway pots. However, when I changed the hand to (A4)(87) it did actually perform worse in the same sims. No idea why.
Long story short: Is this an open, when the chance that everybody folds is approximately 5,6%?
Be the first to add a comment