Who Wants to Help Me? (H.O.R.S.E.)
Posted by Phil Galfond
Posted by
Phil Galfond
posted in
Gen. Poker
Who Wants to Help Me? (H.O.R.S.E.)
So, it seems like 8-Game is what's gonna be running at nosebleeds for a little while.
I'm strong in PLO, NL, and Deuce, and to be entirely honest - I'm just guessing w/ the rest of the games.
I've been dabbling in mixed games for a while and have never taken it seriously (and it shows). I think it's time.
I'd like to improve my game ASAP and I'm willing to put in a little work. It's really hard to fit it in between playing and RIO stuff, but I'll do my best. What I'd really appreciate from you guys (pretty please?) is any of the following:
-Reccs for best tools to study Stud, o8 (I know about troutulator but is there anything better/newer?)
-Reccs of best mixed game videos available anywhere - yes it's okay to mention another site :)
-Any public (or private, if you're generous) outputs of numbers that were run / conclusions draws on any of the HORSE games
-I'd be willing to get coaching if the guy is either very good and/or can save me a lot of time running a bunch of numbers myself - any suggestions?
Obviously, I'm asking for these things for myself, but hopefully if it goes well, we can build a list of resources and stick it in a FAQ thread in the 'Other Games' forum.
Thanks in advance for any info you've got. I appreciate it.
Loading 14 Comments...
Chipsahoya I think was v good at stud8 at one point. Looks like he has some vids up on CR.
Phil, I would love to help you here but the only thing I know about H.O.R.S.E. is that my sister wanted one when she was a kid...or maybe that was a pony~ :D
Hope some of the other members will be able to point you to some good resources though. Good luck!
Will look for something helpful, and post it later.
However, there has been plenty of nosebleed NLHE action going on, and you're probably better at it than at draw games.
Just right now, 500/1000 HU Ike vs Ivey, 300/600 HU trueteller vs Denoking, and 200/400 - 300/600 6-max has been running almost daily.
I'll add what I know here (will update as I think of more)
Software tools
Mixed games tracking/HUD:
https://pokeit.co/ (Cloud tracker)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/fpdb/ (Traditional tracker software. For the hard-core tech-savy guys. PokeIt builds on this project)
Fpdb/PokeIt handles all games. I built an 8-game HUD for fpdb and it was not so hard. Switched smoothly between game rotations. I built it so it had the same basic stats shown for all games, but you can build one HUD for each game if you want. You feel powerful when you have a 2-7 HUD and you are pretty sure nobody else at the table has one. ;-)
For number-crunching, simply Odds Oracle for anything but 2-7 (where you use Troutulator). Using Odds Oracle for all games means you have a consistent and general method. You know OO already, but you might not know about all the "hidden" options beneath the hood.
Learn to run PQL code in OO and you can do amazing things. If you can think it, OO/PQL can probably answer it. PQL is like a programming language for OO. If you don't want to get into that, think it, and pay somebody to build a toolchest of PQL queries/OO spreadsheet jobs for you.
Razz Strategy
Dan "Doctor Razz" Abrams (Cardrunners)
Scientific approach for sims/research on the game. Good video maker, too.
LHE Strategy
When in doubt, bet.
When in doubt, call.
Schneids (Cardrunners)
Back when I was playing LHE, I built my game around Schneids' and Bryce's videos. I assume they are still valuable. No math here, just smart LAG play, well explained.
As for LHE books:
- Winning in Tough Hold'em games (Grudzien/Herzog)
For starters. A bit dated, but good fundamentals and LHE mindset are taught.
- The Intelligent Poker Player (Newall)
- Further Limit Hold'em (Newall)
These + some thinking = All you need to move on from LHE basics. Game theory, but not math books.
Dr. Razz videos over at Cardrunners & Stud8/Stud with Joe Tall over att Deucescracked. CeeGee have videos both on Deucescracked & nowadays over at CR for Stud/Stud8 worth checking out.
I have a spreadsheet for O8 that I created that is nothing significant at all but it served a small purpose for me. I listed all O8 hands in order of ranking. You type in the percentile ranking and it will tell you the column to look at. Scroll to that column and you see hand types in that ranking.
Basically it does the opposite of typing in (J4)(85) and PPT telling you its a 30% rank. I used for example by saying okay I think I should be opening about 30% from the BTN. I type in 30% and go to that column to see what type of hands will be in the bottom of my opening range just to get a feel for ranges.
Ill PM you a link through dropbox.
I would second Dan (Dr. Razz) for Razz coaching - I had some from him and he is very good...he has also done a 'starter' pack for Higher Stakes razz as well....I have his e-mail if you'd like it. Without asking him, I suspect he might enjoy the challenge as well.
I only play micro (to you at least) HORSE/8 game - and would second the ChipsAhoya stuff on Stud 8. The obvious choice for Stud is CeeGee (Chris George) - he did some stuff on CR; I don't know how much is relevant however it suspect it's pretty good and geared for higher than 'this is how to play Stud'
LHE - as per bet/call if in any doubt. The first Phil Newall book is also very good (as most higher games tend to be 6 max and his book is more geared towards that). Frankly, with your range skills I suspect you'll be very good at 6 max LHE - whereas a Durrr type wouldn't as there is less scope for his style....
TD - all the guys on the 2+2 forum rave about the Death Donkey series on Dueces...you may not need it however..
Agreed on Newall, and his 2nd book, too. Added some LHE books to my list.
Don't exactly know what level you're at in many games (I has a suspicion that your definition of "only guessing" is a much higher standard than most), but I know Joe Tall on Deuces Cracked made some solid Stud videos although it's been a while so I can't speak to how in-date/high-level they are now.
As for limit hold'em, just sit out that game. It's terrible, no one enjoys it, and everyone will be glad you abstain 'cas it'll get those hands finished that bit quicker!
If you're bored with LHE, you're not playing it right: ;-) A good LHE 6-max session is like a bunch of drunk finns having a knife-fight in a steamy sauna. Good fun for everyone.
Yeah this is the way to go imo. If you would need any PQL help, Phil, just post it here and I'm sure some RIO posters (including me and ZF) can help you!
Second Newall book looks amazing (have skimmed and not yet read properly)...however; it's a lot more HU based (or bvb at least which I suspect is unlikely at HS Mixed)...
Sorry Tom, I agree with Zen re LHE; in fact a nice full-ring table of Russian maniacs is also fun; as you play guess what cards they may possibly have :-)
Thank you, guys! I'm in games again (seem to be nonstop), but I'll be looking into everything as soon as I get a chance.
If you need help on PLO; PM me I'm a %^%^&ing beast.
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