Hi all,

I was hesitant to post this thread (and if a mod think it's adverse to be spreading this kind of information please take it down) but I wanted to make an observation on the win rates of the bots and what I think is the effect of collusion. The thread I'm referring to is here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=46985958&postcount=1

I noticed that multiple posters in this and other threads have noted the suspected suspected bots have run significantly above EV, amounting to what is 10+bb/100 above all in EV. I have a few observations about this:

1. Presumably the above EV effect is due to collusion
2. There is a significant +EV effect from collusion that does not show up in all in EV, possibly enough to account for the bots' entire pre-RB win rate.

What's stunning to me about this is that the 2+2 threads state that the bots generally don't play more than 2 per table, which means the effect of collusion on EV is incredibly significant even if it's only between 2 players. I don't play on pokerstars, the reason for that is not difficult to guess. But I do play on sites where, given the bot ring information, I have to assume that there is significant collusion in the PLO games. But at no point did I think the effect of collusion was this significant (honestly I probably didn't think about it hard enough).

What I'm asking, and I think this is worth discussing, is whether the effect of 2 player collusion can really be that significant. (i.e. on the order of 20bb/100 over EV). Or, if someone could tell me if I'm missing something, that would also be helpful.

Thanks all,

-Q