Resolving my mental game problems?
Posted by erdian
Posted by
erdian
posted in
Mental Game
Resolving my mental game problems?
Hello guys!
I have been trying hard to resolve and improve my mental game these couple of months and some improvements have been made. But I still feel like I have some strong flaws that needs resolution for me to be a complete poker player. I have been working with the book ''mental game off poker'' and I understand my problems which are these 3 objects:
Mistake tilt: I get extremly frustrated when I make an obviues mistake in my own opinion. I have been trying to use the inject logic like ''mistakes are going to happen the main thing is not letting one turn into more'' to Control myself at the table and it works. But it is a supressed emotion, sometimes it lets go but mostly its a really hard fought battle with myself NOT to start steaming/play to loose. But sometimes I cannot let it go after a session either and take it home. I guess its cause the emotion accumulates.
The big problem here is since I FOCUS on my mental game my POKER game suffers and when I make a mistake in my poker game it can turn into a MENTAL one. The situation becomes bizzare since the issue I am trying to solve hurts me at the same time... Mb I am just thinking in the wrong way here?
I cannot fall asleep after the session because I keep rethinking it. This problem is my biggest one since I just moved upp in stakes and well I am not playing scared money but at the same time when the stacks gets bigger during the night(I am a live player) the Money can start to influence the situation since I dont want to make a ''risky'' play. This takes me to my second problem which is.
Fear: I am afraid to loose Money when its above a certain amount. I know it is stupid to Think so but I have been a nonprofitable/breakeven player for about 7 years because of my HORRIBLE mental game. Before I got a breaktrhough playing and its only these last couple off months I have been making some dough. I am afraid that it will not last or that I will start being bad again or something like that. Also I have a big fear off MAKING mistakes since one mistakes creates me thinking about it which in turn generates more mistakes and my game suffers + my mental Health. This means I am not playing my best poker because off fear and thinking about it makes me a bit depressed.
Confidence: My bankroll is not that big yet altough it is enough for the stakes I am playing. I have doubts about myself since off the long period Before I started to make some Money and making now cause off a good run? What will happen if a bad run appears(mb fear oriented) and will I be able to play through it?
I constantly keep rethinking these issues which in turn makes me angry and that goes over people Close to me and I feel worse for that myself.
I have tried to write down my problems to get them out off my head, I try to exercise(swimming) and improvments on my mental game have happend. The thing is it gotten worse later perhaps cause off the new stakes. It feels like I have lost the joy of actually playing and thats the worst since I really like poker and enjoy the whole thing feeling the chips between my hands :). It feels like some flaws are quite Deep and no matter how much I work on them they dont go away.
So what advice can u guys give me on this? Should I try to hire a mental game coach and can u reccomend a good one and how much will he cost? Or have I not kept working long enough on my mental game? Keep re-Reading the book and do the exercise and eventually they will also become better on a sub-conciues level?
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to Went it out off my system somehow instead of holding it inside.
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I know lots of players get titled when they make a mistake. Like its some sort of sign that they arent good, because if they were they wouldnt have made that bad play, or that its upsetting because if they can figure out its a mistake, then why the hell did they make that play? For me I think a better understanding of what mistakes are helped me with this. Mistakes are part of the learning process, without them it means you arent getting better. As you grow and expand your game part of that is getting into new situations and unfamiliar areas, how exactly are you supposed to explore these new areas without making a mistake? Thats what part of learning is, figuring out what works and what doesnt, mistakes are an important opportunity in this process because you can learn what doesnt work. If you arent making mistakes it means that you arent exploring.
Also remember, you are only aware of the mistakes that you can spot, so if you arent "making" mistakes, really what it means is that you arent yet good enough at understanding certain situations well enough in order to see the mistakes you are making, or you are just playing absolutely perfect poker, but I feel safe in saying thats prolly not the case ;) There is a difference between what you know well enough to execute under pressure at the table, and what you know away from that pressure, its not fair to get upset at yourself for a mistake at the table just because you can spot it away from the table or when the hand is over. Its not something to beat yourself up over, its just a sign that you dont fully have that situation under control yet and means there is still room for improvement. And identifiable room for improvement isnt a sign you suck, its a sign you have an opportunity. So maybe trying to look at mistakes you make as an opportunity to improve instead of a sign you are bad, would help.
I mean look at it this way, what would it be like if you played your game and never made or spotted a mistake. How would you go about improving? Where would you look to get better? How much would it suck if right now you were at the ceiling of your skill and you could never improve? Youd never be able to move up, and eventually youd get passed by the people around you who were able to improve. So thank God that you can see and make mistakes!
How long have you been working on your mental game? Its definitely a long process and not easy, so dont get discouraged. As far as mental game coaches, I have done a ton of work with Jared Tendler and can't recommend him highly enough, I think spending money on any other coach out there would be a waste cuz it would be better spent on him.
I would suggest possibly moving back down in stakes to where you feel comfortable at playing and work on building that confidence at a level your more used to. Get in a rhythm at that particular level and once you do and feel that you have enough profit to advance, try it out. Reading, "The Mental Game of Poker" is a good start though. Great book with excellent advice. I would also recommend checking out the book, "Elements of Poker", by Tommy Angelo. Angelo I think would help your issues out and make you look at the game in a different, more positive way. It did for me anyways. "Positive Poker" is also another one of my go-to reads. Just remember, becoming a winner in poker takes time and is a complete skill in itself. Quitting is also a skill many players overlook. Sometimes, quitting a session is in need but players tend to play through it thinking they can win their money back if their down or even make more money when there up more than enough. It really all comes down to self-discipline, which is acquired through time as well. Last but not least, maybe it's not all totally your mental game that's holding you back from succeeding in poker, it could be your game theory/strategy as well. 7 years as a break-even/non-profitable player is quite some time, not to be rude. All and all, work on both areas of your game, the mental and the game strategy aspect. Hard work and dedication can go a long way in the end.
Best of luck on and off of the felt.
I recommend the first too as well but I haven't heard of Positive Poker, will have to look into it. Thanks for the reference :D.
That is a very good advice as seeing mistakes that I can BECOME much better and therefore move upp higher in stakes and make more money. Never looked at it the way you presented it Toothpaste and I am greatful for this advice will try to implement it next time I play a session. I have been working on my mental game seriously for about 4 months.
Compared to 7 years of TILTING that is a lot of catch up to do and maybe I want more results quicker then actually is possible. After all I want to change a behaviour that has been there for 7 in a couple of months.
I have read ''elements of poker'' and found some advice there that where useful but ''Mental game of poker'' is superiour in that aspect. I will give the book ''positive poker'' a try.
The reason why I am so sure that its my mental game that has held me back for 7 years is that I can understand and clearly compete with mid stakes players on a game level. I have realized it since I moved up recently and play vs them. Also by reading and posting on this forum on low-mid stakes. Every time I have gone broke playing is not because I got outplayed but I started tilting and tried to get back my winnings by jumping to a higher level. I might be overconfident on this spot but I often discuss poker with people that are in my opinion are better then me and play higher stakes. After all if I really thought I could not beat the level I am playing now I would not have moved there its just that the change has put more mental preassure on me and thats why I felt some old problems returning.
I want to thank you both guys ALOT for commenting and giving me some feedback on my situation that was much needed. I will keep working on my mental game and my aim is that one day I can concetrate on just my game and improve there.
It is really a vicious circle you are describing where your focus on your mental game causes your poker game to suffer. But I have to say that it really sounds like you are doing a lot of things to try and alter your old mindset and to try to improve both with regards to mental game and the theory/strategy game. I recommend watching some videos in here, there is probably a couple of vids focussing on the mental game, which would do you good. Also just keep joining discussions in here so your analytical skills and theory/strategy skills don't suffer. As Toothpaste mentions, mistakes are actually a good thing. Human beings in general don't want things to be too easy. If you just succeed at any given thing and you can't see anyway to develop or be better, most people would just quit. Mistakes keep your brain sharp and in poker (like most sports) there are always ways to get better. Gl. Cheers.
Yeah it is very frustrating knowing that you can play better but since I put all my effort into not tilting it creates game leaks/mistakes and that also puts preassure on my mental state. The solution I personally have found to this is playing 100% by the gut/instincs and that saves alot of energy(scary this have been quite sucessfull for me dunno if its good or bad) The fear factor plays a part aswell when I can controll fear better my instincs are used to the fulliest. This does not always work unless I am the zone/feel decently otherwhise its 2 front battle at the table.
Yeah I rly try to motivate myself these past days that mistakes is a natural part alteast create something positive about them and not beat myself up to much when I make one. Will take a look at the videos aswell its just that I am trying not to spread out with all the information that my brain has to take in and remember :).
Hey there edian,
I can relate to a lot of the roadblocks you are coming across.
My best advice for now is to go back down a limit, really start working on your mental confidence and fine tuning your game. Even though you might be financially rolled to play higher stakes which have the appeal of higher winrates you might actually make less and risk more.
When moving up you will also be facing a higher general skill level and these players will be used to the bigger stacks and fill more comfortable in their games. Even if you are on par skill wise, the mental issues will be giving them a significant edge which could unfortunately lead you to worse results which in turn effects your confidence - rinse repeat.
By dropping down the stakes again you will have the chance to prove to yourself you are a winning player over a larger sample while also really focusing on the strategic aspect of your game. During the session write down any pot that is over 50bb that you are involved in and review it later either on here, with friends or just yourself. Get to the point where you are crushing that level. Where people don't want to play on your table and will actually try to move tables because they are that afraid of you; it is doable! Then when you move up it is much more exciting because you know what you can do, your roll will also be stronger and your mental game.
There is the fact you may be a breakeven player as the variance in live poker can be crazy, but if you are currently on an upswing moving up to feel the downswing to kill the game for you.
Also do you record/track your live sessions with any software?
How many hours do you have on the lower limit and on the new higher limit so far? :)
I tried to play lower again several times but I get so damn bored that I feel I dont try to play my best. I dont see a point of me going down and playing mediocre since:
1. my mental game wont evolve.
2. I wont become a better player either.
Is there a software to track live poker? I dint know that can u give me advice on some. I just write down the time I have played, results and important hands+ how I did mentally.
I have played approximantly 150 hours off 1-1 euro and about 50-70 hours(will know at the end off the month) off 2.5-2.5
To comment I do buy in for 100 euros in my 2.5-2.5 game to reduce variance aswell the fact that I have been performing less well mentally lately and to make the ''losses'' hurt less. I can afford to buy in for a full buy in but I am practecing more on my mental game now and gonna start doing that as soon I feel better there. So I dont mind winning less money as long as I practice on my mental game.
Theses 2 days have been rough though timing and variance wise. I have gotten som good hands but the problem is as soon I double upp to 200+ I lost the stack the hand after which is mentally draining cause u wait for a good hand for 2 hours then play it and u loose it/fish owns you...
The weird thing is that I did play some off my best poker + my mental game has been performing well until the last 2 hours of todays session where the preassure got to me eventually.
The session today was one off the hardest ones so far since I got bad beaten several times as soon I started to build the stack and all my good hands where beaten by better.
AJ(hero) vs AQ, A8(hero) vs AQ KJ(hero) vs AK, (theses hand usually played out that I raised pre got called and I did showe flop/turn and was owned. lost it to fishes since they play ANY starting hand and its +ev playing broadways Ax vs them.
lost all ins pre with AQ(hero) vs AJ,
QQ(hero) vs 77. I would say this was the hand that maid it boil over since I did work myself back to breakeven to 300 euro stack and villian missread my 3-bet 45 euro and showed over with 200. I ofc called and he setted. After this I should maybe have quit but then again hoped I could turn the session around.
The loosing hand occured after I double up with a good hand so not all hands where bad the problem is I kept loosing the BIG pots...
I managed to loose the minimum with AA on a 988 board where I got a tell on villian that he had an 8 and folded. The last hand was also quite demorelazing since I had 22 and 40 euros and out off frustration just showed pre and got called my 4 other people...(yeah got owned by 94o here) :(. Anyway I SHOULD have lost 300 due to variance but some timing/mb tilt caused me to loose 200 more so total loss is 500 euros which ofc is not fun and also a bit sad that I could not have controlled myself better and just loose less... but I guess we all make mistakes.
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