Quitting my job by years end to play poker FT!!!
Posted by flash2717
Posted by
flash2717
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Poker Journals
Quitting my job by years end to play poker FT!!!
So I am a 29 year old male living in Tennessee and currently working FT for a cellular company making around 40k per year. I hate my job and really want to be able to spend more time with my 3 year old son. If that means making 5k or 10k less per year then so be it. You only live once and I don't want to look back and hate myself for not attempting this. I am a winning player who has been playing off and on for around 7 years. I just got serious about it again about 1 year ago after a 3year break. I am winning at a 7bb/100 clip on Bovada at 100NL right now through a 70k hand sample this year. I'm only able to play like 15 hours a week due to my job and being a single father. Being a poker professional would just open up a ton of opportunity for me to be a better father and a much happier person in general. I know poker is hard but I am more talking about the life changes would lead to me being happier than I am right now. I just got divorced and this is my chance to see if I can do this.
I do understand this profession is a very tough one and I respect anyone you does it. I have been receiving coaching for about 5 months now and my coach seems to be very confident in my ability to easily clear my goal of 3k per month. He seems to think I'm crazy not to just quit my job now and go for it. I have a time frame of about 4 to 5 months for that. My hope is to quit my job before "Black Friday" this year bc I hate that damn day in my job.
I will be trying to update this on a weekly basis so you all can keep up with my progress.I use PT4 so I will be posting some graphs so you all know I am serious about my results. I am a very process driven person as of late bc from all the books I have read it would seem to be the difference maker in a successful poker professional and a somewhat successful poker professional. I'm all in and going for the later. 
I am currently reading "The Poker Mindset" which is an amazing book for anyone who is wanting to get truly serious about the game of poker. It is an amazing book that has taught me so much about what I should expect as a poker player and how to handle these things by using my knowledge I have gained during my studies that other players haven't done. If I have a better understanding of where I am at mentally I am one step ahead of the competition IMO. 
~Starting with $1,000 (Just spent my BR to finish off the divorce) 
at 50NL 4-tabling 6-max (Only allowed to play 4 tables on Bovada) and will be trying to log in 20 hours per week. At around 250 hands per hour I should get in around 5k hands per week. This will get me to my goal by the middle of November. Just in time to quit before Black Friday!!!
I know this got kind of long but I hope you all will still give me some good advice and help me along the way. I will be using this as motivation so hopefully you all will be my rock to help me through the tough times. 
I cut a pasted this so I hope it turns out ok.
I know some of you know me here and know about my past issues with my mental game and BRM. I have spent the past few months working on that aspect of my game very hard and feel it is paying off. I still have so much work to do and look forward to the challenge ahead. I am a very hard worker and hope this blog will pay off by keeping me focused on the "Long Term".
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good luck Tom! I am on a similar journey myself, trying to make poker my FT job by the end of the year and quit my current job. hope to see you at the top buddy
20 bi brm ? really. gl gl :)
No. When I do quit my job I will be using a minimum of a 50BI BRM. When I have 1 year of living expenses saved up and have 50BI or 5k for 100NL then I will be quitting my job. This will probably take a few months but I am in no rush.
40k per year is a lot of money, Wade. Just keep up the grind, lots of people would drool to make this kind of money~
If you play poker full-time, it could lose its fun. I wouldn't risk have poker losing its fun just for a couple extra bucks. Keep playing passionate poker as a side-activity, and just kick ass at your job.
Kick ass and take names literally. Just keep crushing your day job, like you crush the fish online. Don't settle with one or the other, do both!
-Mush
I can respect your opinion but I will say if you hate your job so bad it is causing your life to suffer then it's time for a change.
I don't want to be negative, but I feel I should issue a pretty huge word of caution here with regards to BRM - 20BIs is not enough to be a professional! 50 would be the absolute bare minimum I'd think is possible, but realistically you should have at least 100BIs before going pro (as well as a long history of crushing the games). Given you have a kid to support and aren't playing stakes that are big enough that you can still drop down and support yourself (i.e. a 5/10 grinder could run bad, drop to 2/4 and still make good money. A 100NL grinder doesn't have that safety net), probably 200BIs would make more sense. This is just for play as well, you should have 3-6 months expenses (food, rent, life, emergencies) saved just in case. Unless you have all these things in place, going pro now, especially sacrificing a stable job to do so, is a really bad idea imo.
50 is way too low also. Don't go below 100 if it's your job.
Good luck, Wade.
Thank you very much Tom for the advice. I greatly appreciate the time you have taken to help me in my journey.
I think people misunderstand my BRM. With reason bc it cut out an entire paragraph about my plans before I go pro.
I will have 1 year of living expenses put away and then will have a MIN of 10k or 50BI for my limit which is 200NL. I am starting with 20BI at 50NL right now bc I do have a way to redeposit if things go bad to start. I do have a good job and am going to almost be bill free for the next 3 or 4 months so this is a great opportunity to save up a ton of cash and give this a shot. Basically I will have around 30k in equity (not liquid but easily accessed) put back for a safety net plus around 10k-15k in liquid cash. I also do have the nice fact that my ex-wife does help with my son so it's not entirely on my shoulders. I think I misrepresented my circumstances by saying I was a single father. Sorry guys and gals.
I really respect your opinion and will think hard before I make the leap. I also plan on trying to be playing 200NL before I do decide to make this jump to doing this professionally. It would seem that the consensus is to have 100BI before I do this which I can respect and will contemplate in all the factors I include. One good thing is I also have many other options as far as careers go so I'm not ruined by any means if this doesn't work out.
I am thankful to have all of you to care about me enough to give me the great advice you have. I will keep you updated and this isn't anything I am rushing so everybody just take a nice DEEEEP breath and relax. I do plan on making poker my career and I would like to do this before Xmas but I am really in no rush and if worse came to worse I could always switch careers before I give this a shot.
Thanks to all who have commented and I won't let you all down. Most important I refuse to let my son and myself down. I have never been more determined to learn and work on my game so I can be there with my son more and have a quality of life that we all deserve.
(DISCIPLINED GRIND)
50 buy is is more than enough. lol at anyone saying you need more. if your good and have a good winrate then do some simulations. 50bi for a good winner is like 0.1% chance of busting or somthing- and thats if you didnt move down stakes.
Please - don't quit your job Wade! I would love to have a job I hate that paid me $40k a year and then I could play poker on top of that! Sounds great. And I would also go w/ a min of 50bi's I know on Bovada it seems as if you don't need anywhere near that many but things can go bad in a heart beat and if it is your only source of income bad runs will be soooo much more mentally challenging and I am not sure 50bi's is truly enough imagine you have 60bi's for $100nl ($6k) and go on an 18bi losing streak ($1.8k) and this is your only income and now it's not coming in - it's going out! It is very easy to let this snowball and get out of control, after all a week ago you had $6k and now you only have $4.2k and need to drop down to $50nl but the rent's due and electric is due, so how can you drop down already in the hole $1.8k this month! Where if you had 100bi's and lose 18 it's not such a big deal - you don't need to drop down yet and if need be you can still pay your rent and stuff, depending on how much rent is you might need to drop down for a minute but that's ok because you are over rolled! and should be moving back up soon.
Good Luck! And keep us updated!
edit: Please stop using the words "Black Friday", it makes me nervous! ;)
What about working extra few months and deposit some serious money in BR and a few months saved for living so you simply don't start doing a thing thats bsaicly doomed to fail cause its impossible and everyone keep telling you that that BR is unacceptable
You, if i recall well already have posted such BR shots and taking, and everyone at this site who wish you the best advised you against doing so
I hope this time you come around you do realize all this people are advising you to you benefit and have experience you do not with BR
:) Wish you the best whatever you decide, tho i must say i hope you realize this line isnt best 1 to chose at given moment
Thanks Aleks. I do appreciate the kind words and I wish I would have listened back 5 months ago when you all got onto me for trying this with only 20BI. I was ignorant then and hadn't really studied the game very much or the psychology of the game either. I have been reading a ton the past few months and working very hard on my game. It really seems to be paying off and I hope to make you proud. :)
Wade - please listen to everyone :) 20 buy ins is insanity even on Bovada I am winning at over 10bb/100 at the regular tables (only 35k hands tho) but I still had a 15 buy in downswing. It will do your game so much good if you are over rolled. It is better to have the extra buy ins and never need them than to need them and not have them. (I stole that line obviously).
I too wish you nothing but the best of luck and hope you go on a heater right away so you aren't gambling it so much. If I was you I wouldn't take shots at $100nl till you got at least $4k (I would wait till $5k but....).
Taking a shot at 100NL when I get to around 25BI or $2,500. If I drop 10 BI then I will go back to 50Nl and work my butt off to get back to 100NL. Hopefully by my 2nd attempt I will have some money put back and be able to not worry about it.
Let's just hope I run like Jamie Gold the first 2 or 3 weeks right!!!
Wade - just my opinion but I think others would agree w/ me, 25 BI's is not enough to start your shot taking - you keep saying there is no rush and yet you keep rushing your BRM. Just let it happen - crush 50nl and build up your roll so when if you take your shot and lose 10 BI's it doesn't erase everything you did before that.
I guess I say these things bc the ultimate goal is to move back up to 100NL if I have to deposit up to it. I have played most of my hands there and at 200NL. I know my hourly is way higher at 100NL than at 50NL so the faster I can get there the better off I am. No rush to be a pro but most certainly ready to get to 100NL again.
I would quit job and start playing FT poker if:
- I win lottery ( minimum $200K ) // I would be thinking whether to quit job or not then though...
- I win same amt as above in some poker tournament, but BI for such tournament would be HUGE => I am already winning player.. // how much should I be winning then from poker?
- become winning player with netto monthly wins >> my netto monthly earnings from regular job ( or brutto wins >= my wages at job) over let's say 3 years // I think 3 years is okay sample
Facts:
Fact1) When we work we pay for health insurance and old-days pension
Fact2) When we work we have let's say secure and stabile job in most cases and if we work correctly and well - we will be earning money, for poker that's not guaranteed
Fact3) When we work, we earn money that can be safety net if things don't go well with poker, which ensures we still have hobby that we love so much
Fact4) It's better to listen advices from other people that were affected by some problem somehow than feel that problem on our own skin
Fact5) If someone depends on us ( children in this case), we should do our best to provide them 100% secure environment for growing up with 0,00 risk
Fact6) Such decisions should not be decisions or gamble/risk at all but technical things as result of proven thing over large sample ( amount off winnings and time in this case) and they should be done silently as something not even worth of publicity as it's natural course of action
etc...
I also wish you very best as all other members here.
Please don't take my words as preaching, but "friendly" warning with good intentions.
Good luck!
Words of Wisdom
"The only thing standing between you and your goals is the bull**** story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve them."
~Wolf of Wallstreet~
"Time and Patience are called for. Many surprises await you."
~Fortune Cookie~
Better advise is that you should be realistic and listen to others.
Motivational quotes are for facebook.
You'll make it eventually if you keep working your ass off, but don't rush things and don't take risks.
Also just another thing real quick. Sorry about not doing the BR Challenge on YouTube. I do plan on making some videos of my quest to becoming a pro and maybe if I don't embarrass myself maybe even a strategy video or 2 since there aren't many out there on Bovada.
Also part of my plan would be to move out to Vegas to be with my poker coach for my first few months to help me get a good start and also get into good habits. I think just being with him day in and day out will really help me get into the groove of what it's like to be a poker professional.
Cool good to hear you are not grinding a 20 BI bankroll ;)
Sounds like you have a good plan but I think your time frame is pretty short. You say you are in no rush but want to playing 200nl w/ a 50 BI minimum roll and have a years living expenses on top of that and all by Christmas! I am just now starting to play $200nl and have a little over 50 BI (so I am only shot taking right now) but I will be thrilled to have a years living expenses plus a roll for 200nl by Christmas. Maybe I am just a BR Nit though. (I feel I am pushing it at 50 BI's which is why I am only playing about 1/2 my hands there now).
I work too dont forget that. It makes a big difference in being able to build up a nice safety net for the troubles that will surely lay ahead. I do agree the more I read that I shouldn't make the full time leap till I have a min of 100BI for 200NL in my BR plus a min of 6 months living expenses.
I'm glad you found what works for you
I'd strongly suggest trying to keep a part-time job for the first 6 months or so at least.
Also you need to consider how the social isolation will affect you, particularly with what I assume is a young child.
Thanks for the advice.
A short update.
Basically I ran around 7 BI below EV the last 4 days and am down around $600. No sweat though. It's just part if the game. As I said before I'm not in a rush and am actually feeling I played pretty well from my HH reviews. Got it in really good bout 6 times and lost to some rough stuff so you'd expect to be down a little biy. I rated myself from an "A" to a "B" on every session except one so I'm not disappointed in my play by any means.
Just keep taking it one day at a time and try to improve is my only goals at this point.
Hi Wade,
at first, goodl luck! There is a german guy, who decided in 2007 to quit his job, and move to England, and play poker fulltime. He started with NL25, and everybody was blaming him, how stupid he is, that he wants to play NL25 as a pro! BUT, he had 20k savings. He did his way, and he plays nowdays highstakes! So everthing is possible. He played 10 Ours a day, and studied the game for extra 2 hours.
I think, that your success actually depends on how well or bad you run. Look at your last post:"Basically I ran around 7 BI below EV the last 4 days and am down around
$600. No sweat though. It's just part if the game. As I said before
I'm not in a rush and am actually feeling I played pretty well from my
HH reviews" As long as you write oubout how much you are up or down, and how much you run obove or below ev, you are far away to become a pro! Think about this!
Good luck!
Thanks btw. I do understand what your saying about saying how I ran but also if I am updating this thin what else do you put. people dont come here to chit chat. people come here to talk poker.
I am very unhappy with my situation bc I never see my son or get to spend the time with him id like too. I see my dad at 60 years old and how he wishes he couldn't have let things pass him by. Poker wont be around forever folks so if I can take advantage of it while it is here and be happy then great. As I stated before I can get right back into my profession very easily.
I also work VERY hard on my game almost every single day. If I had the time I know I could be successful bc I love the game so much and learning the game is just so interesting to me. The game is almost like a sick game of chicken and chess combined. I am just focusing on grinding right now and trying to improve my game every week. If I put my focus in that then the rest will either take care of itself or not. I think people take my hate for my job like Im giving up on life an just taking a stab in the dark at poker. Its most certainly not like that. I am working an going about life as normal but just treating poker with a much higher intensity and focus on the "long-term". I hope to accomplish my goals and make this my profession for the years to come but if I find a job I love then it will just be a great side income.
Don't forget a couple of things that seem to be very different from Wade's situation:
1) In UK we can play on a huge number of sites
2) No tax on gambling winnings...not sure either of those apply in US..
Neither is true Simon, tax rate is kind of big from what I understand somewhere around 30% (not 100% sure, double check it don't just take my word for it). And there are very few sites to choose from but the sites we do have are so much softer it is kind of ridiculous. I mean people are still pulling 2008 win rates in states ;)
If there is one advice: follow your BRM strictly. You have a kid so don't cheat the system. If you follow BRM everything is possible!
Good luck!!
Thank you for the positive words. It would seem that all this work I've been putting into BRM and my mental game should pay off since I've been working so hard on this aspect of my game. Focus on making the right play and the rest should take care of itself. Just working on getting better every week.
Seems kind of drastic to me. Can you just find another job that you might enjoy more? Get your basic living costs covered by the day job so you can feed your kid and put a roof over his head. Then any extra money from poker on the side is gravy - use it to invest or have a better life for you and your kid.
Poker is a fantastic second job but a terrible primary job for 95% of players imo.
I went through a phase like this years ago. Quit my job that was paying me $60k/year to play pro because I was making the same money as my day job from poker but hey, freedom and not having to work for the man! I didn't last 3 months. Went on the worst downswing of my life and couldn't take it mentally even though I was living with my parents with no mortgage to pay.
Now I'm married with more financial responsibilities. I found a better job and I still play poker on the side. I still have days where I hate rage out at my job and want to quit to play poker. But I remind myself that patience and waiting for a better opportunity will pay off in the long run. Now I'm using poker as a supplement to my income so that I can pay off my house ASAP. When I hit a downswing it's no problem because I can take as much time off from the game and still have income. I can find luls during work hours to study and there's no pressure to put hands in. I have a goal to go pro again but only when I no longer need the money (house is paid off).
I'm not saying you'll have the same experience as I did. It sounds like you're pretty driven and your mind is already made up. So I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour.
I appreciate the words of advice and I am taking all things into consideration. I am very driven to at least attempt this even if I never quit actually working some job. I do know I will not quit my job to play poker professionally unless I have full confidence that I will be ok if the worst happens. Always plan for the worse my coach always says. And for everyone out there my coach never said I should quit my job an play poker. He says its a great side income but he also hears the pain in my voice when I talk about never seeing my son and all for a job that doesnt pay well and I will always hate. I have to do this for my sanity. Now I am looking for another job right now that would hopefully make me a little bit happier where I could be off to see my son every now and then. If that happened then this conversation wouldnt matter bc I would stay working and just play part time.
I'd think long-term, too - 401k, health plan if you aren't covered under a spouse etc. etc.
But mostly retirement planning. No one wants to be a 200NL grinder at age 55.
I feel like a lot of younger people are in for a lot of shock one day when they realize how important it is to set yourself up for the later stages of life.
Just my two cents overall on anyone thinking of going pro. It isn't 100% specific to this thread but just some food for thought.
Thanks Tom. I have put my 401k and retirement into the equation. I have thought long and hard and have put in health insurance retirement and even disability if I couldn't function or something after an accident.
I haven't made up my mind on my end goal of not working at all or if I'll just find some small job with no responsibility and play poker as my other job. I just refuse to go through life and be 60 and miserable and not feel you lived your life at all.
I am thinking long and hard about my final decisions and really appreciate all the guidance I've got from the people on here. Even if some weren't really trying to give advice.
Im surprised to see a lot of negativity in this thread. Especially on a poker training site. Its easy to find the way someone will fail at any endeavor but that doesn't mean it's an impossible venture. The fact is many players live off "just poker". Of course everyone's situation is different but it seems to me Wade is taking it seriously. Yes, BRM should be a priority. If you're getting coaching, studying consistently, logging in the hours, getting results, amd reevaluating then go for it.
First of all whether or not you're going to play poker FT or not, you have to device a plan to get out of a job you hate. That's #1 imo. Maybe its because i have a FT job that i hate but i think most people think of it like a job that sucks. Some jobs are just terrible and cause more stress and misery than $$ is worth. When you hate ur job even time off isnt as good cuz you're still thinking that soon you'll be back. That's not living.
So IMO, if poker is what you want and you understand the risk/reward. Go ahead. Manage ur BR. Keep improving. Work on the mental game. Manage your money wisely (think retirement and ). And work hard on being your own boss. Also, keep on eye out on legislation and that your other options are still available.
The majority of people are more comfortable with a " secure" job (doesnt exist) and think this is the only way. But we know better. After all This is a training site with people who are doing it now. Amd there are a ton more playing poker online and live everywhere.
Gl
TY Robben. I do agree with some of the advice I have received from some of the negative comments but do think if this is a training site and people are obviously doing this for a living they would have a little more advice on how to do it and not how I cant do it.
Wade - I don't think anyone is telling you that you can't do it. Most of the comments have been well intentioned warnings that the life of a pro player is not so easy, and certainly won't be a stress reducer. I would say you are likely to experience more stress.
I hope you can achieve your goals and I hope it works out well for you. Certainly it is achievable with hard work and dedication. My main thing with you is that you seem to listen to people about bankroll management and at the same time say "yeah, but here is why I don't need to follow it." I know you know how important it is, imo, it is one of the main reasons some players are successful and others are not. I really don't think it would slow you down much or hinder your goal to start applying a 50 buy in minimum right now, even while you are still working your FT job.
Anyways good luck!
Mental health is everything - if you're miserable in your current job, you need to change if it's viable to do so. I'd be really worried though about how the variance of poker will impact your mood when you are around your family. Hopefully you know yourself well enough to be able to know whether being in the middle of a bad downswing will effect your interactions with your family.. if it does you will probably strain those relationships, begin to hate yourself for it and resent poker's impact on you.. then wonder why you did this in the first place.
My experience personally and with others who 'want "it"' (whether 'it' means poker, a new life, etc.) as much as you seem to is that they tend to ride emotional roller-coasters more than less ambitious people. I would make the obvious observation that you're in a different life phase than a lot of people whereby you're forced to be more responsible than you might like to be. Normally I would encourage someone with as positive an attitude and as much self-belief as you have to go for it, but I think you should only do it if you can honestly say that there's no chance that the blood-sucking game that is poker could leave you wishing you were a better father at some time down the track (worse than how you feel now).
Best advice ive ever seen on this site. When you start talking about my son and being the best father I can be it really hits home. I am concentrating on being the best father I can be and have actually taken the last week off from poker to really dive into my unhappiness in my job and life. I wish I had a crystal ball and knew the future but being a good father is my #1 objective. I do feel I have been through some life events that helps me to be more of a big picture person which also will help me to make the best decision for my family. I am young and the more and more I think about it the more I feel that doing poker part time(15-20 hours/week) and finding a job I enjoy would probably be the best option. I havent made my decision but am thinking and praying very hard about it. Thanks for all the help its been amazing.
One thing I have to change in my life is my job though. I couldnt be more unhappy. Im off 2 days and all I can think about is going back in 2 days. SUCKS!!!
" I am young and the more and more I think about it the more I feel that
doing poker part time(15-20 hours/week) and finding a job I enjoy would
probably be the best option" Wade
I think you are right :)
As I was reading this thread I kept thinking - there are more than 2 options(poker/current job). It seems like you came to the same conclusion.
I also wanted to add that on the risk side of the equations - Bovada could go away tomorrow. I don't want to derail your thread but with only once site where you can only 4 table, and given you are playing 100NL = bad risk/reward IMO
You were my first coach and always did look out for me from the beginning. I really appreciate the input and have decided on working full time for a year or so, doing poker, and then if I do well moving out of the country if we dont have poker in California by then!!!
Just to clear things up. I do play on 3 sites right now but obviously BOvada is the best by far. 2 others are meh...
Obviously a better idea to work. Thanks for all the help and I feel I came to an educated decision that is best for my family. End of this thread and the beginning of the part time job/poker thread soon? JK
Wade
wow is my memory that bad - i remember that we chatted about coaching but we never got around to actually coaching - right?
No. Your right. We spoke a while about my mental game and you helped me a ton and we're my cherry busting coach per say. Haha
But no we didn't do an official session
wade I wish you the best of luck in this difficult decision, but if you want to see how hard the game can be at times check out my graph in my poker journal thread. I've been a pro now for 7 years and it doesn't get easier. I would want to have a few years of successful grinding under my belt and something like a 30-40k roll built up (with 6 months or so of living expenses saved) before I would consider turning pro in 2014. And that is the minimum I think. I think your plan to find a job you love and keep learning and loving the game on the side is a great compromise, and one that will likely result in you being happier and healthier.
I couldn't agree more. .. thanks for the good advice and for the positive vibes.
Im pretty sure its one of Daniel's alter accounts bc i just ran into him on one of JoeIngram1's podcast
I challenged him to play and of course he did the usual pretend he is a badass and then not play. haha
i can post my graph from 100NL if I dont have any believers
well actually didntt i do that already
Try doing both and set aside one bank account just for poker play and the other one for living exp. from your job. Build up your poker account slowly and see how you do in the next few years before fully going all in and ruining your day job. Would love to play with you all someday. Take care and good luck
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