Question

Posted by

Posted by posted in Gen. Poker

Question

Hey guys. Just wondering, have any of you gone through the experience with your parents or even friends, that they totally disagree with the route you take playing poker as a source of income? And if so, how did you all handle it? Going through it right now with my parents. I understand their coming from a good place, and they're just very concerned about my future, but, in reality, they don't understand the aspects of this craft at all, and even the different types of avenues you can take, besides just playing the game. With me, I use poker as a 2nd source of income, because I currently have a part-time job, which is my main source. Down the line though, I plan on shifting gears and will try to become pro. I believe I have what it takes. It's going to take time, but I'm more than up for the challenge. I also plan on moving out of my parents home just as soon as I can become financially stable enough to do so, possibly saving them the headache worrying about me, even though they still will when I'm out.

All and all, hope you guys get where I'm coming from, and feedback on this topic would be truly appreciated. Thanks so much.

29 Comments

Loading 29 Comments...

Ray Cobbing 11 years, 11 months ago
I feel your pain bro.

Once i first started playing, it was hard to get my parents on board with what i was doing. Everyone you speak to about poker who doesn't know so much always look at it like "gambling" which i guess i some sense it is but, truth of the matter is it's not like playing roulette and splashing everything on Red, there is a bigger skill cap in poker than most "gambling" games.

My best advice to you which is what i did, run out alot of hands on your Hold'em Manager / PokerTracker, show the "haters" what you can churn out in a day / month / 6 months, and let it go from there.

Personally i felt aswell that keeping my job rather than relying soley on poker helps me mentally before firing up any kind of game. Even though i could barely live off poker, I'm just still not there yet, one day though :)



GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
Going pro has a lot of risks. You might encounter legislative problems that force you to move out of the country. You might become unable to play winning poker anymore. You could lose your motivation to grind.
If people have irrational concerns then you should just agree to disagree, and avoid the subject.

And if you want to go back to a normal job you have to explain that gap in your resume.

I would be interested, and I expect your family aswell, graph with winnings.
If you can show a nanonoko like graph with a steady winrate over a long sample that should convince most of us/them.
ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
"If people have irrational concerns then you should just agree to disagree, and avoid the subject."

Very much in agreement. You can't win these arguments with logic (math/statistics doesn't work on most people), and it's not the smartest thing in the world to refer to your results either, when you make it. Poker is not a good job for those who need the acceptance of their peers.
TheRaulrus 11 years, 11 months ago
Thanks guys for your feedback. Truly appreciate it. It's gonna take some time for me to try to become pro. I believe I am a good player overall, but if I wanna turn pro, I have to become a solid player overall. A Nanonoko type graph is out of my reach as of now, but I believe if I keep chipping away at it with hard work and dedication like I've been doing, I might have a shot. As of now, I'll continue to craft my skill at the live tables and also work my part-time job to make my main income. The day will eventually come for me, and hopefully for all of you as well if you want it to, to turn pro, but like playing poker, you gotta be patient.
thestomach 11 years, 11 months ago
just like anything else results speak! going pro is a huge risk and its always great to have things to fall back on such as work experience or qualifications/good grades. you dont have to take the leap str8 away. once your hourly becomes consistently higher than what youre being paid in a normal job then change over.

nothing wrong with having 2 jobs also! good luck!
Nemquin 11 years, 11 months ago
The biggest problem with being a poker pro, is if you eventually hit a brick wall and can't make enough money anymore, you need to apply for a 'real job'. And as much as the poker community will be impressed over graphs, sitting at a job interview and explaining why you had no 'real' job for x amount of years the pokerworld can't help you. So yeah, make sure you have an education to fall back on, and keep that part-time job even if you make slightly more on poker. It's not just about the money.
ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
"With me, I use poker as a 2nd source of income, because I currently have a part-time job, which is my main source."

Here's some advice from the perspective of a full-time player who has played for a living for 7 years:

Your situation is a pretty good one right now. Perhaps you feel a lack of freedom, but keep in mind that you're free from some problems that a poker pro has to deal with. Don't toss this situation away before you have something significantly better. Right now you have the best of both worlds: Steady income + time to play and improve. You also have low expenses. All in all a good starting point for the budding poker professional.

If you want to take the leap, don't leap, make the transition smooth. You're (presumably) young and don't have people depending on you, so you can afford a little risk with your money and your time, but don't pile up risk when you don't have to.

My advice would be that you:

1) Keep playing until you're a winning reg in a game big enough to both support you and build savings
2) Save up for 6+ months of expenses in addition to your bankroll (which should be large, especially for PLO)
3) Try out the grinder lifestyle (playing significant volume on schedule every day) for a month or two before you quit your job

If you can do these things, you'll have a good chance of making it. However, that doesn't mean you should. If you make more from poker than your job, that's a pretty nice "problem" to have. Have you considered paying for an education with poker winnings? Taylor Caby (Cardrunners founder and former high stakes reg) and Brian Hastings didn't quit school even if they easily could have.

Picture yourself 10 years from now. Where do you want to be in life? If a poker career is compatible with that vision, go for it. If not, don't burn too many bridges. I've burnt all of them (jumped to poker after completing my education, which is now pretty useless to me) and I don't see myself ever doing anything else.

I'm fine with that and I'm fine with living somewhat "outside of society" (which is where many players end up, regardless of their plans and intentions, living their lives in a "bubble" with a little too much poker in it).

I have no regrets, but I was lucky that this lifestyle fit me. I wasn't aware of the side-effects of a poker career when I started (although, in hindsight they are pretty predictable for anyone with a minimum of psychological insight). So you might want to reflect on that before you steer your life in that direction. How do you want your life to be? And by that I'm not referring to money. Build a life that will make you happy.
GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
I don't want to like ZenFish' post because we are racing for Top Member of the month, but that was actually a good post!
GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
Damnit now ZenFish got 4 likes total for these two posts, and I only got 2.
His strategy to like my post and act like he is all sportsmanship is working very well, a little bit too well even.
GameTheory 11 years, 11 months ago
About the family members disagreeing, during the NBC HU Championship they asked several top level pros such as Phil ivey, Tom Dwan, Doyle Brunson, Phil Hellmuth, Daniel Cates and one unknown satellite player called Phil Gandolf or something how their parents reacted to their poker ambitions:

http://www.pokertube.com/videos/nbc-heads-up-2013-ep09 at the 34:08 mark

As you can see, parents are just scared and overprotective, even if they have extremely talented children. They don't seem to be very adequate in assessing your chances of success. The best way to get their approval is to be confident about your decision, so they have to accept it as the conscience decision that you make for your own good.

And to prove them wrong you have to be a consistent winner!
TheRaulrus 11 years, 11 months ago
Great video clip! So true. It's a little more comforting to know that the best of the best had parent issues as well. In reality, parents just want the best for their kids. I understand why a mother or father would be very nervous and worried about their son or daughter telling them they wanna be a pro poker player. Hell, if I had a kid, I'd say no way as well. It's a risk and a gamble. All and all, parents just wanna see their children live a fulfilling life.
Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
To add on all advices above, keep in mind that there are other things in life beside poker, and that since you are very young it would be very good to finish school same time if possible, school will give you good education and beside having a way out of poker world if you change your mind, it will fulfill your life with knowledge and love for something else in life beside poker, t and make you content that will make you not narrow minded person introducing your life with quality having only poker in life you cant have
You can pick subject that interest you and you like and love, doesnt necesserally need to be grown up 1 that will make you money like economics, you can pick something that you have affection for as poker, and im sure something interest you as well beside poker :)
ChaLuck 11 years, 11 months ago
Lots of great posts here guys, thanks a lot.I am struggling with similar thoughts, just as the OP.I am still in the college right now, playing poker for more than 4 years and I am really scared about the time when i graduate.
Somebody above mentioned something that kind of worried me.If i turn pro as soon as I graduate, how can we explain the gap in our resume at some later point when we are looking for a regular job.I mean, saying that we used to play poker during that time is not really a smart desition, or is it?
WM2K 11 years, 11 months ago
If I was an employer and someone came in telling me that they had been a poker pro for a while but wanted to move on for whatever reason I would count it as a +. Poker requires much more maturity and self driven competitive awesomeness then most jobs I can think of. And this is after on top of the strong logical deduction/ reasoning skills and being able to perform under pressure.

I m probably not like most employers (esp seeing as I employ nobody :D) though but I m sure anyone who is worth working for can probably be made to understand as long as you present it properly. The thing I can see hurting is the lack of a professional network as a lot of opportunities lie in who you know. Still though I can t see a strong poker player who is resourceful having trouble moving on after.
jonna102 11 years, 11 months ago
I think the "gap in resume" thing is a bit overstated. I've asked around a bit, and in reality it doesn't seem like a huge deal. Even taking a year off and just playing golf for fun many would find acceptable -- times are changing, people understand better the value of enjoying life.

That said, it does depend a bit on what you do. Poker carries a fair bit of stigma with it, so it may not come across so well if you say you played poker professionally for a few years.

Overall though, I'd say be mindful of the future but don't sweat too much over it. Make good decisions along the way, and things will generally turn out well. If graduating and then playing poker for a while seems like a good decision right now, chances are that it's not going to hurt you too much later on.
Nom de Guerre 11 years, 10 months ago

i disagree that the resume gap thing is overstated :)

yes it's obvious some employers may not look at the gap favorably but there are other more subtle reasons why a gap is a bad thing. 

there are some fields that are quite technical and evolve quickly.  if you are an IT worker for example and you take a period of only a couple of years away from the field you run the risk of letting your skills atrophy and become out of date, and your employability declines.

GameTheory 11 years, 10 months ago
I think the "gap in resume" thing is a bit overstated. I've asked around a bit, and in reality it doesn't seem like a huge deal. Even taking a year off and just playing golf for fun many would find acceptable -- times are changing, people understand better the value of enjoying life. 

For what kind of jobs are you talking specifically?

Be the first to add a comment

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy