plo content?

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plo content?

hey guys - don't want to get all fussy and all, but really feel like PLO has been underrepresented here recently.  0 elite videos so far this year - falling way behind NL and MTT in general for a while now.

perhaps get some new instructors?  the content is usually good when it comes out from the elite coaches, but doesn't come enough imo, especially for those who sign up for the site for mainly PLO videos.  also only one essential coach seems to be active atm

just wanted to complain =)


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Mikey Stotz 11 years, 2 months ago

We hear you and this is something that is being actively worked on.  We are hoping to have some new additions to the roster in the very near future to meet our PLO video needs.

IJustCameForTheFreeCookies 11 years, 2 months ago

Agreed.

I love the site, the design, the coaches and the members. All the best I have ever come across. I dropped from Elite to essential as primarily here for PLO didn't feel it was bang for buck.

Still best site out IMO.

themightyjim 11 years, 2 months ago

is there any chance you could add an option to subscribe to elite for only 1 game?  ie I'd happily pay $30/month for only elite PLO content.  $100/month is just out of my price range right now, but I'd love to have access to the elite plo stuff.

themightyjim 11 years, 1 month ago

it's disappointing.  I'm assuming most of RIO essential members are MTT players or NLHE cash players, and that is why this isn't a priority.  However it's frustrating that such an innovative site hasn't considered other ways to profit from players that are interested in giving them money.  RIO get some quality low stakes PLO players willing to make consistently good content and figure out how to charge me for it.  I'll pay.  Elite is too much at $100/month, and I don't really want the MTT or NLHE content.  But if you would either allow me to purchase PLO-only Elite content, or provide me with a second tier of subscription at $20-30/month with 10-12 quality low stakes PLO videos per month I would be thrilled.  I just don't understand why you've polarized your range when it comes to the products you offer.  It seems clear you're missing significant sections of the market.

silentsleeper 11 years, 1 month ago

Couldn't agree more with this. This would be a niche subscription that would be pretty popular. The lack of ongoing PLO content for the Essential subscription is making me think twice about continuing.

Tom Coldwell 11 years, 1 month ago

Is there anything in particular that you Essential guys would like to see with regards to PLO videos? I'm always looking for suggestions so if there's anyone in this thread with a topic/topics they'd like covered, let me know and I'll take them into consideration.

themightyjim 11 years, 1 month ago
I think the best videos tend to fall into two categories:

1) live play at your highest stakes against a mix of tough regulars and fish.  AKA a normal session.  Whatever the coach prefers in terms of commentary is fine, whether it's in real time or post production.  You could always consider just recording several playing sessions a week and wait for a particularly interesting 45-60 minute stretch and choose that for a video.

2) pick a singular concept that you found interesting.  Address said concept with theory discussion.  Provide a sample hand and do some software analysis.  Find 3-4 examples in recent play where a deeper understanding of the strategy around that concept would or has aid(ed) your play.

I terms of coming up with ideas for specific videos, I think just browsing these forums or 2p2 and look at the hands that have the most discussion, and start there. 


In general I think the videos for essential have been good but not great, but for the price we are paying we are definitely getting good value.  However I think more focus on specific concepts that can directly improve one's understanding of profitable play, OR really tough sessions against good players will help us more than watching you guys coach a microstakes player.  Not that we can't often find some value from that instruction, just that at this point such basic strategy is available in the video library.  Anyone looking for such videos needs only watch some that have been made.  It's time to start covering new ground.

Also if Phil is going to be doing 1 30 min PLO essential vid a month I'd much rather him do a theory vid than a 30 min live session where it's very possible that nothing too illuminating will occur. 

thanks for listening guys. 



JukeBox 11 years, 1 month ago

what about a video that explains how to create a logical thought process to implement the concepts that are taught in the videos? I mean, I've rarely seen a coach create an exhaustive and in depth description of their entire thought process, well, not since I saw DogIsHead making a HU series for a certain other poker site. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened yet, it was a great format.




Tom Coldwell 11 years ago
This idea re: creating a logical thought process intrigues me. What exactly do you mean/would you mind elaborating a bit on exactly what you're looking for?

Note: I have never seen the DogIsHead series so don't understand that reference fully.



NoHubris 11 years ago

Dog Is Heads up is a series made by Haseeb Qureshi about HUNL. In the series, he explained everything about how he thought HUNL should be played, from preflop ranges to position play, the difference between stakes, the differences between HU and 6max, ranges, abstract thinking, etc.

Here is a link to the first episode (YouTube), just so you can see what type of content it is. I'm not sure if this is against RIO policy, so if it is, feel free to delete this paragraph. Dog Is Heads ep. 1

I would love to see such a complete series of videos like it, but for PLO.


JukeBox 11 years ago


Think of it like a decision tree. I mean, we learn lots of concepts, but formulating a process to implement these seems like a logical idea in my eyes. I suppose its taken for granted, but I really feel like it would solidify our priorities. It would also be beneficial to players who want to push their volume and figure out what stuff is essential to solid decision making and what stuff can be classified as useful but may be dropped in situations where we want to add more tables. We have lots of time to prepare pregame with no pressure, but we have limited time during an actual hand to decide what to do with the information in front of us.

eg in tourneys many mass multitablers may choose to shove AK in situations where it may be more +EV to raise/call as it simplifies their decision-making giving them more time to spend on other decisions which may be more significant.


below are some slides from said video which does a good job of explaining what i'm trying to say, but honestly his monologue really explains it so much better.


Tom Coldwell 11 years ago
Okay, that's not a format of presenting information that I think I would want to replicate as it doesn't look anything like how I think/feel comfortable sharing my thoughts. As such, any attempt to produce something similar would probably not be hugely valuable.


ZenFish 11 years ago

JukeBox

what about a video that explains how to create a logical thought process to implement the concepts that are taught in the videos? 

Perhaps "method" is the word you're looking for? I think a video series about how to actually implement new concepts in your game has potential for greatness. 

Here's an example to show what I mean:

Our hero decides to strengthen his OOP postflop play as the aggressor in 3-bet pots. He identifies some flop textures that he finds difficult to play, and then he improves his strategy on those textures:

- What to c-bet
- What to c/c
- What to c/f
- What to c/r

When tinkering with these ranges, hero might become aware of weaknesses in his OOP 3-betting strategy. So perhaps he decides to become more aware of what he's actually 3-betting in various spots: 

- What 3-bet% to use against various open% ranges (vs 10%, vs 15%, vs 25%, etc)
- Building a set of predefined 3-bet ranges (4%, 6%, 8%, ...) to use as defaults

And so on and so forth. One question leads to another. Throughout it all, there is a method, whether you are mindful of it or not. Having a method and being aware of it is better than jumping around and plugging leaks at random. 

André Santos' analysis videos are excellent examples of strong PLO method in action. A video series on the level above that (the "method of methods" if you like) is what I'm envisioning. How to identify and solve problem areas in your game in practice.

This is very different from just understanding theory and math. It's also a skill that's hard to teach (very much a a skill set you need to train hands-on). But I think a strong, practical guide to general PLO problem solving can be made.

A minimum of theory and math, lots of software tools, some very thoroughly discussed examples illustrating leakfinding, leakplugging, and how to construct and implement new things in your game. Preferably starting with a question ("How do I ...?").

Such a series could be a collaboration project, too. Different coaches chiming in with techniques that they prefer to use, and therefore know particularly well.

Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 1 month ago

umm..lately I'm having trouble with playing2tone boards type of heartheartclucbclub and alike

one covering that topic with various holdings, like str8 set , or fldr and opponents raising and reraising and in diff positions and situations

situationally its interesting topic to cover and has lots of examples if you like the topic 


ZenFish 11 years ago

Repeating myself: We need more mid/high PLO 6-max content (1 such vid in the last 11 days).

Trigger 11 years ago

Agree with above (elite ones esp). Did we find out what happen to Sam Lang? Also start throwing more money at Odd Oddsen pls =) he's a killer and would love to see him produce more vids. 


Dan Quinn 11 years ago

Hi guys,

We hear you and I want to assure all we are doing everything we can to get our PLO release volume back to a normal level.  It won't be much longer so please hang in there.  In the meantime, we just added a sorting feature to the pro video page.  Take a look at our 181 PLO videos sorted by most likes, there might be a couple in there of interest you haven't seen yet.

Thanks so much for your patience,
Dan


Arnaud Lafaurie 11 years ago

It is what I pointed out in another thread about Phil Galfond interview. I'm wondering how you can manage the fact that some customers can complain on the lack of PLO vids, in this case it is really justified because the amount of PLO vids is far behind NL and MTT, and in the meantime if you increase the amount of one game category, it will impact the others. it is for that reason that I think regarding the price of the elite membership, you have to manage 3 types of customers and satisfy them. How you can do that? on my side if I see that MTT frequency decrease I will complain as well as my colleagues interested in PLO :) your thought?

Dan Quinn 11 years ago

Hi Lafauriea,

We try to maintain a balance of the three core video types such that all members are receiving a good amount of content that is relevant to them.  My post was about acknowledging that the PLO side of the equation has been underrepresented lately, and that we're working extremely hard to bring it back into balance.  

To answer you question, you can't please everyone all the time. :)  That said, I think we generally have a fairly good mix between NLHE, MTT, and PLO and I think most of our members would agree with that sentiment.

Thanks!
Dan

ZenFish 10 years, 11 months ago

Counting MTT and PLO vids since Jan 1:

- MTT: 79 (averaging 1 per day)
- PLO: 27 (averaging 0.34 per day, and only 5 vids released during the last three weeks)

It doesn't have to be an equal split between all games, but when one game receives 3x more videos than another (also popular) game, something is more than just a tad askew.

PLO is a beautiful game and deserves better than to be treated like a red-headed stepchild. So I humbly ask you to please adjust this imbalance soon. :-) 

ZenFish 10 years, 11 months ago

And we have a new mid/hi PLO coach!

From the infinite well of PLO love that is my heart, I say: THANK YOU RIO! 

Huge pot of espresso coming up, and I'll watch me a Durian video right now. I remember you made an appearance in Oddsen's vids last year, Durian, and I'm looking forward to viewing yours. :-) 


Ph33roX 10 years, 11 months ago

Would be nice to see more PLO videos from Stefan Legat, his videos are very good. Some PLO videos from Ben would be sweet, even a theory video or reviewing members hands could work, it's kind of sad to have a player like him on the site and not see even 1 PLO video from him. It's cool that he is NLH focused on RIO, but i would be nice if he threw a PLO video once in a while.

I see now that that a new PLO coach was hired. That's good. I hope he can contribute to a more rapid stream of PLO content.


Chael Sonnen 10 years, 11 months ago

There you go:
http://www.runitonce.com/pro-training/videos/4-table-2550-6-max-zoom-plo/

Now that it's been taken care of, it's probably best to see Phil make NL videos for the rest of the year.

ZenFish 10 years, 11 months ago

Given recent development, it's obvious that Phil now has decided to cultivate his PLO game beyond the grasp of mortal men. PLO videos will surely follow.


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