Limping cool again?
Posted by Chael Sonnen
Posted by
Chael Sonnen
posted in
Gen. Poker
Limping cool again?
A little while ago I played a 50/100 reg, and he limpes multiple times, even from EP. Thought it was odd, but maybe he was unorthodox.
Just played another guy who's considered one of the top 20 NLHE players in the world, and he was limping UTG, SB, and even the CO.
Some very good midstakes regs limp from EP, Adrian Milroy obviously being one of them.
Are people onto something new here, or did I just run into two players who still have that style?
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Options can't have negative value, so why not. Curious myself, about the best way to use limps (in PLO). BTN and SB openlimps against those who never fold, for starters, and I do that a bit. It also makes intuitive sense to limp from other positions in deep PLO games, but haven't experimented with that.
Was talking about NL btw. Seems like more players limp in PLO than NL, right?
Yup, got that, and they do. I would think it's harder to execute well in NLHE, since hands are more WA/WB (you give away more info about what you could have on the flop).
So btn vs blinds
1- you think the blinds are not over-folding
and
2- your hand plays well vs a 100% range but not great against a defending (vs a bet) range
Are those the two principle factors for limping in that spot ?
Simply put, if your hand is playable, but you make more by limping it than raising. Extremely loose and passive opponents makes it attractive to limp, for starters.
when i was first learning to play PLO I tried a style where I limped 100% from EP and increased my betsize as I got closer to the BTN. It was an extremely profitable strategy until some observant regs started to adjust as well as my moving to plo100 and plo200 where regs continually isolated and attacked my late position opens. Now I've moved back to a more traditional style decreasing my open sizes as my range widens. But in particularly tough games where you have bad position against the weaker parts of the table I'd guess that limping 100% in EP might still be the most profitable strat.
I've seen this a lot myself. I think it's a reaction to the LAG style becoming more and more popular. You take away the ability for people to relentlessly 3bet you. Not saying it's a good or bad strategy.
When you limp in, you play a small pot unless raised. So whats to play for unless you and your opponent flop a strong hand/ draw ? There is no money in the pot == much less action.
I'm new to the game, but I always raise and re-raise so I can to build a big pot. If I flop well I continue, else I decide whether to bluff or not. The only time I consider flatting is if my opponent would 4 bet me light. If he only 4 bets with AA then that's great, half his hand is revealed. Hope this helps.
pretty good insight from someone whos new to the game...lol but I really agree. What I suggest as a possible value for limping is that it could make players make mistakes because they're confused by the limp. If you raise you say "I have a good hand" but a limp is more disguised, and if you limp alot people won't know when you limped with a very strong hand and by not raising you force atleast the BB to see a flop and catch what they think is top pair...Personally I would only do it to mess about and have fun with, see what happens lol. In terms of consistently making money though I think raising is optimal.
I'm not sure how others react to a limp, but I am not confused, he wants to see a cheap flop, and stack me when he hits the nuts. I always raise, especially those pesky short stackers, and bet the flop. If they call me I take them seriously and try to make a hand or bluff on a scare card.
Btw, sorry if I didn't mention, I raise when Im in position, out of position I'd fold unless I have AA in a 3-bet pot, in which case I'd 4 bet. Also, I'm referring to PLO, NOT NLHE, I don't play Holdem. Its very hard to play out of position for me, when I play OOP I play super aggressive which thus far hasn't worked too well for me, keep getting stacked.
I do agree with you that limping sometimes confuses players, especially the BB. When I'm in the BB and someone in position limps, I'll see a flop and check it down unless I flop the stone cold nuts, they simply have great implied odds for me to value bet.
Also, you mentioned players make mistakes, but are the mistakes for their entire stack? I think this game should be played for stacks, and you ain't getting anyone's stack by playing a small pot pre-flop.
Perhaps some way of preserving a higher SPR while getting to see a flop. I noticed some regs even at the stakes I play start limping SB when I'm BB, possibly as a reaction to my spewtard 3B tendencies.
Tyler Forester talks about it in one of the videos where a reg was also limping a ton, saying he thinks it`s a losing strategy due to BB realizing it`s equity for free.
Interested to hear more opinions, but i doubt someone with good limping strategy is gonna be willing to share it.
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