I'm going to quit Poker.
Posted by morningview
Posted by
morningview
posted in
Gen. Poker
I'm going to quit Poker.
So some quick cliffs:
-Started with $1.75
-Ran it up to $120ish playing 2-5nl.
-Constantly read and thought poker over the last month.
-Have played for 5 years, studied on and off for two, won 14bb/100 over 50k hands at 25nl, cashed out 3k on bovada last year, beat 1/2 live (lol)
So, over the last month, I've gotten about halfway through Applications of Holdem by Janda, watched a ton of RIO videos with the elite membership and taken notes, done a ton of range analysis, equity calcs, constantly went over hands on 2p2, reddit, here; constantly thought about hands. I'm down 15 BI at 5nl.
This game is brutal. Sure, I'm running kinda bad and whatever, but this is 5nl. I don't think I'm good at poker, but jesus christ, even 5nl is filled with (probably "bad overall," but still) grinders. Even if I was crushing I'd probably be making like $2 per hour lol. How long until I can move up and make minimum wage? A year? A year of studying my ass off? No thanks, I'm not going to sacrifice my last two years of university studying what I keep hearing is a dying game. Too many people are so far ahead of me that I would get crushed and have to move back down constantly and re-evaluate. There are just so many people that started during the boom and have been playing for 10 years and are sitting at 50-200nl that would eat me alive even if I did move up over the next couple years. I guess my point is, even at my peak potential I'd probably not be making much more than minimum wage in a year or two.
I just don't have the right personality for that honestly. I like progress, I like results, I like being able to know my results are a result of progress. With poker, I never know if I'm running good or bad, or if I just got lucky that a whale sat down but if it was all regs I'd be getting shit on.
I also have a hard time balancing it with life for some reason. I played both Chess and Starcraft at a high level, but with poker it feels like I could play for 24 hours straight. I neglect working out, hanging out with friends a bit. Poker is pretty consuming, at least for me (addictive?).
I'm taking a Math course this summer, and I started realizing I was doing more studying of poker than my University class. Pretty sure that's hugely -roi. Without substantial monetary potential (which IMO, is going to be in a permanent decrease as poker continues to dry up), I don't see how people stick with this game. The news about bots, the constant bad beats, variance, it's just rough. The botting is especially discouraging for me, because I imagine it'll end up like the hacker/cracker race where people race to develop more sophisticated bots while others race to stop it. Where does it end? Technology and botting is only getting stronger, which will only make it more difficult to prove when someone is botting as opposed to a real player playing close to optimal.
I think the dream about making it big in poker is horribly outdated and false. I think the only reason someone should begin playing that isn't already making a substantial income is because they enjoy poker as a game, for what it is (i.e. how many of us would play Call of Duty or something). The amount of time and energy it would take to become a competent player could be used in ways that would be much more profitable or +EV happiness.
This game isn't for me, thanks for those of you that have responded to me during my little journey here, and good luck to those of you that continue playing.
Thanks for reading! Bye everyone.
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Very interesting post. I would really like to hear thoughts from good players/RIO pros about these subjects (botting, future of poker, is poker for everyone, is poker even worth it anymore...).
Good luck with your life (without poker). :)
Thank you Samu, I know you're one of the most helpful contributors on this forum. I don't mean to be discouraging to everyone, but this is my reality and how I see it.
Maybe a RIO pro can provide some counter arguments.
Nice post indeed. I would also like to hear from RIO pros what they think about this. Its obvious that RIO exists and will only continue to exist if the "dream of making it big in poker" is still real and true, but I hope RIO pros can give sincere thoughts about this. I will give my opinion below, following the questions @Samu proposed based on the post:
Is poker for everyone?
I really don't think so. For me, poker is just like any other career in the sense that not everyone will be able to perform equally good. I'm not saying that you have to be born a poker player or something but I believe that not everyone has the qualities required to be a good poker player, like logical thinking, emotional control, focus, determination, and others.
Does poker even worth it?
Imo, definitely yes. What is true is that poker is gonna become more and more competitive over time, but the same happens to the other careers too. I think that most of us that begin playing poker and then start to take it seriously have an illusion that you can become a winning player by just watching some videos and discussing hands in the forums. I'm not saying that this is your case @morningview, since you seem to have put decent work on it, but in general I think we underestimate the effort necessary to be a winning poker player. If you wanna be one of the best engineers, programmers, lawyers or whatever, you will definitely have to put A LOT of time and effort. I'm talking about years of studying and hard work. Why should it be different with poker? Can we become a very good and winning player by studying the game for one or two years? I don't think so. Poker is competitive, and it will always be, and it will become more and more with time.
What is the future of poker?
Well, its hard to say but I don't think poker will ever die. Simply because its fun. There will always be people willing to play it because its a lot of fun! It will definitely become less lucrative, since more people are learning the fundamentals of the game and etc, but I don't think it will ever lose what makes it a fun game to be played. Regarding to botting I can't say anything since I don't know anything about it.
I just don't have the right personality for that honestly. I like progress, I like results, I like being able to know my results are a result of progress. With poker, I never know if I'm running good or bad, or if I just got lucky that a whale sat down but if it was all regs I'd be getting shit on.
I think this is totally false. Your results in poker are the only indicative of your progress. If you play 400k hands and you are losing, you are very likely a bad player that needs to improve. If on the other hand you are winning after 400k hands its very likely that you are a winning player and at least is not getting worse. I think the problem you have is the lack of patience. Poker requires patience. You can't expect to play 50k hands and suddenly be sure of how good you are. You need to give it more time, hands and experience.
Overall, I think your post has good thoughts about the game but you are definitely frustrated about your results and your frustration made you start to doubt things that you probably wouldn't doubt some time ago. But anyway, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do with your life. The main thing about life is finding a way to be happy. If poker can't do this for you, you should definitely search for what really does.
I don't have a good response, but I just wanted to say this post is really great. You have some very good thoughts and a good way of articulating them.
great post, i like idea:
otherz areaz as programing hard to
y u need to work ass off anywhere... so even if i did quit poker and went IT , i would need to learn heeeell lot to stay ahead of competition,
btw imagine u start learning to code/programing/w/e and u will fail to learn OOP(object oriented programing , not out of position, lel c: ) so it will be like downswing in poker... would u quit? or would u invest more time and more tryhard to finally fucken learn it? i guess u will tryhard.. so do same with poker
if u gonna always quit when u fell on ur fkin azzz, u never gonna make it in any job/area/antyhing
Well there is a major difference gaucan. In Poker, if you don't stay ahead of the competition, you won't have an income. Even very medicore programmers make an okay living (in US, idk about other places). Poker guarantees nothing. Learning a real skill guarantees you an income, whereas poker can provide an income, but it gets harder everyday.
Of course I'd much rather play poker all day than sit in an office, but wouldn't we all rather play games? For me, it's not realistic.
not sure if there is so many needed jobs even for IT noobz , but i meant it generally like if u r good singer but not the besst of best, u wont have income anyway, since u not ahead of competition... so iz not just in poker
depends on number of positions left for job , but if there like 4 , and 100 applications... guess wat... they wont pick u since u sux..
Yeah, just quit.
You will come back in a year, but who cares?
I was quitting in 2007 to come back in 2008.
Quitting in 2008 to comeback in 2009.
Quitting in 2011 to come back in 2014.
So yeah, just quit only to find that those who have will will win at poker.
I don't like this response because it reminds me of this: How we see others is a reflection of how we see ourselves. If you keep quitting and coming back, that's you, not me.
I was attempting to become a good player making a good side income (which may very well be the incorrect approach to this game), but I realized that I am not capable of that. My time would be much better spent working hard on my degree and maybe spending more time on other hobbies like playing guitar and working out, which I used to do a lot more.
Poker isn't some obsession for me, once I see the reality of my situation and make a decision, I stand by it. I work hard and have good discipline in most parts of my life. Poker is only fun if you're a winner or if you can delude yourself into that you are a winner. I am not a winner, therefore I don't care to play a game in which I have a disadvantage, simple as that.
Cool. It was not supposed to be a 'nice' answer.
Yes, I am obsessed. Just told you my story.
I wasn't saying I didn't like it because it isn't "nice." I was saying I didn't like it because you're kind of just projecting your own poker journey on to me. Just because you keep quitting and coming back, doesn't mean I'm going to do the same. I'm not the same person as you, and to assume everyone has trouble quitting poker isn't correct.
I know we are different.
So you told your story, I told mine.
Peace :)
Well you said you'll come back in a year, and then told me cliffs about how you kept coming back. I won't be back in a year. Peace.
Look at this guy posts.
There are a lot of spews, some bad plays, but he thinks, he analyse, he continues and he will be better than a lot of players if he does that for 6 months more.
yay iz me!
I think poker is kind of like math.
Some pick up and progress much faster than others, but everyone has potential to be very good at it if they work very hard.
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