hello, help this noob pls!
Posted by bijou
Posted by
bijou
posted in
Gen. Poker
hello, help this noob pls!
Hello All,
I been playing poker on/off for about 8 years now. Didn't know a thing about poker, and learn it all from the casino. Started out with 3/6 limit and work my way up to 20/40 limit. Switch over to 1/2NL didn't like it to much so then switch over to 2/5 PLO, and love the game, played 25/50/100 PLO for a bit till the game die at my hometown casino. Next switch was to the lovely game called Baccarat, and you all know what happened there, surprise surprise went broke. :) That's my little story of gambling but now I want to try online but can't win a dime even if my life depended on it.
So I dip and dab here and there online but never once was I on a heater, and won anything. At least in live poker you can run your few hundreds up to few thousands in a single session but that isn't the case for online.
Just like everybody else I try the micro stakes/low stakes, HUSNG hyper turbo, tournaments, FLNH, you name it I try it minus the high stakes.
December 10, 2013 I deposited 1k and played straight HUSNG hyper turbo PLO for 1 month (3.50-300 stakes) mainly 30s-60s. I ran my 1k to 3k then back down to $75 then won a $25 hyper turbo NLHE tournament so back up to about 2k then lost it all back down to $500, and now mutli-tabling the .10-.25 PLO.
I play about 12 tables at once for about 5 hours a day for the last 5 days. I have about 13k in hands for a sample size, and down about $400 in those 13k hands.
Now the big question and only reason I sign up on this forum. My BR is sitting at $150 do I reload or should I stop smoking this pipe dream?
Thanks All!
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It doesnt sound like youve actually done anything to become a winning player other than play a ton of hands, which in this day and age isnt going to cut it. I think if you want to be a winner, you should pick one game and stick with that game and learn how to play it. which is going to require you to learn how to play it, i.e. study, not just grind.
playing 12 tables at once just means you are going to lose 12 times as fast. Play enough tables so that you stay interested in the hands and your mind doesnt wander off, but not so many that you cant focus 100% of your attention on a hand when you have a decision. If you decide to stick with cash games, give zoom or rush poker a try, as you can 1 table and still get a bunch of hands in, and have sole focus on the hand when you have decisions.
read forums, post hands, answer hands (doesnt matter if you know the "right" answers or not, posting forces you to think about the hand and people can correct the flaws in your logic), really you should be studying just as much as you are playing (if not more) while you are trying to become a winner.
Well I did downloaded HEM and review all of my biggest losing hands after each sessions. I stick with PLO for the most part online and live now. I do make notes of certain players while I play them.
Sometimes I do a tournament of NLHE here and there. I like playing HUSNG hyper-turbo a lot, I need constant action. But this format I feel a lot of times you have a small edge but that edge goes out the window once your on the bad side of the coinflip. So I figure I do cash games, any where less than 9 tables is kinda slow for me. I feel like I give enough focus of my attention on the hands. If I play any less and sit around waiting for a hand, my mind starts to wonder especially on the micro stakes. I don't like zoom, doesn't feel the same to me, I rather 12 table and have the dynamics over time with someone than, hand select.
I watch a few videos by Phil, actually quite enjoy it because he can explain things clearly. The hands I lose with is pretty standard plays. I can send you what I have in my HEM and you can see for yourself, the hands I lose with are either:
A. standard play (get it in HU with AA/KK, or force play hands 2nd nuts HU)
B. Suck-outs, I mean I got beat with quads back to back 5-6 times in a row, I can pull those hand history for a viewing. This was during a HUSNG hyper-turbo with different players, after a beat like that you have virtually have no chips left to play and pretty much force to shove the remaining. In live poker I'm lucky to play off quads like once a year. I'm not saying that I'm perfect and don't tilt but the tilting comes after I lose hands like that with my remaining stack. Now I feel like a little girl ranting to you about the beats. I know your suppose to deal with it but to get beat the way I do, sometimes I question the software of PS. I feel a lot of the hands are setup and the turn card for the most part brings a draw. Now I feel very reluctant to even account the turn card as more outs added to my hands.
@bijou-
Your post title is "help this noob pls" but the tone of your posts implies that you think you know what you're doing and don't really need help.
There are a ton of really smart and nice people here on the Run It Once forums, and you'll get a lot out of posting here if you do it right.
If you are asking for help, make sure you're going to be receptive to the advice you get.
We all lose big pots on coolers and 'standard plays' and we all get sucked out on many, many times, each and every day we sit down at the tables. It's not all about those pots. Every small pot and tiny decision is a potential edge you can have over your opponents.
Poker is a very complex game, and winning today takes a tremendous amount of effort and dedication. It doesn't happen overnight, and you don't learn simply by playing and reviewing your hands.
Everyone here knows that they have a lot to learn, myself included.
GL and enjoy the site!
Bijou, I don't think there's much I can add to the two replies you already have except maybe to comment on the one thing that leapt out at me in your posts:
I mean this sincerely:- If you need the action more than you need to win, you will get it but it will cost you.If you can afford that and are happy about it then redeposit. If you can't afford it then don't redeposit. Either study and grind your balance up, learning as you go. (Which is either fascinating and fun or boring as hell, depending on your mindset). Or if you decide you might have a gambling problem then cash out and have a think about what you might want to do next.
Good luck to you.
Thanks for all your guy's reply, and tips on how to improve.
@Phil
I know my tone in my posts is "yeah I try everything and I know everything" but that isn't the case. I have a hard time expressing my thoughts, and to boot with my added frustration with the game. I always get over the beat after a night sleep, and happy to play again the next day. I just feel I keep head butting the wall, and don't know how to fix it.
I did watch a few videos from you back in the BFP days, I always thought you were one of the few guys who have genuine quality to give valuable tips. I see everyone using your half bet into trips board all the time. I will tough it out with the remaining amount I have left in my roll and play the .01/.02 and will post a graph.
@steamer
I love the action, I don't mind losing but the little voice in my head always demand a little result. I mean you put your time into something you hope to get something out of it. I will grind a lot more and will post a graph but where do you even start with studying? The only thing I like to do is watch the videos and hand review as far as studying goes.
Now you sound like someone who could get somewhere :)
I could write you a really long reply but I think a short one would be more helpful. If I was you I'd pick one format or game and really study that. NLHE 6max maybe. As for how to study. Pause the videos as you watch and think about what the best play is - do you agree with what the coach said or not? Why? If you disagree dig out Power Poker Tools or Pokerstove and whatever other tools and see if you could be wrong. Why does a half-bet into a trips board work? What's the best counter strategy? Maybe post a question or two. (after you've done the work). I know from experience that some of the absolute heroes on here are not only glad to hear a well reasoned alternative point of view, but are also quick to acknowledge they are, or might be, wrong.
Also you can do a similar thing in the forums. Work with the other posters to solve situations.
The other thing I'd really suggest is playing one or two tables only and try to work out what people are doing and why. What kind of hands will they show down? What exact hand will they have? Will they have the nut flush blocker? etc. etc etc. You won't earn many VPP's but you should learn a lot and make a little. And learning a lot and making a little seems better than losing a lot again and again. If you do what you've always done, you are going to get what you always got.
There's a "Mental Game" section that is for all of us that struggle with coping with the frustration of playing. Might be some things in there that can help.
Lastly, I would say that I personally judge how well I'm doing by how low my level of frustration is. That only improves as my understanding of the game deepens. If I get in a difficult spot and begin to get frustrated, I'll review the hands and the opponent involved and work out what the heck is going on because it's just a sign that I don't understand something.
That's all I have and that was the "short" version. Lol. Also - hit the "like" button for any posts you like - we all want to be appreciated ;)
Peace.
Hey Bijou,
I`ve gone (am going) through a rebuilding phase myself. I think it can be tough for someone with a decent track record to come down a lot of levels and "just play micros". So one thing that really popped out to me was the word grind. I think "grinding" is something you do for the results that implies you don`t enjoy it. I also think that as you try to master this new skill (i.e. online poker), you`d do better to do it b/c it's interesting, challenging and fun. I've found that playing much fewer tables and focusing on the thought process and the game itself (instead of the results) has made the game fun and interesting again, especially b/c it is generally played at a pretty high level these days. Id say pick the lowest micro level you can stand and give yourself enough of a bankroll to play properly, but only after deciding to crush the games.
re tilt: I found that losing a big portion of my bankroll at smaller levels was more frustrating than losing a higher dollar amount previously was - it's that losing a big % told me "you're not good enough". Which sucks. In my experience with rebuilding, being deeply rolled for my level lets me shrug off beats much more easily.
Finally, I noticed the big jump when I got comfortable thinking in terms of ranges, what ranges correspond to what percentages (i.e. exactly what IS top 5% and how does top 8% play against it?) and how certain flops hit these ranges. For what it's worth, some very successful live NLHE players I've known have had a great ability to put guys on hands, but not the best ability to know range dynamics. Some of the newer books on cash games discuss this. Phil Gordon's Little Book 2.0 goes into this a bit - there's even some discussion about PLO by a pretty strong player.... I`ve found that doing work on Excel and playing through scenarios on sites like Pro Poker Tools has helped get a sense of range vs. range, hand vs. range etc.
I'm not sure how much of this applies to you, but I've found some of what you were saying applied to me and this is the best I can do to speak to that.
Hope it helps,
Lewis
Today I did a 305 mins session with a total hands of 3201 with a net won of $26.91. This was at the .01/.02PLO,.02/.05PLO I decided to drop a few tables and focus more on all the tips I received from the all the posters.
@steamer
Appreciated that you put in your time to even write a reply, no one really taught me anything in terms of poker. Kinda just hop in and fend for myself. I remember the very first day I play 3/6 limit holdem, I didn't even know what the hell is a pair. All I did in that session was raise every streets then show my cards at the end. To me losing is learning, but I try and try with online, nothing ever worked out. In live at least some days you can just close your eyes and hit and hit. But online I never once find that I can win a decent amount after a session.
My game of choice is PLO 6-max. When I do watch videos by Phil, I always think is there a way to counter it. I was never good at discussion among my peers, very introverted person. Actually this is the first time I ask for help in a forum. I posted the exact same thing on 2p2 but didn't really get a decent response.
Level of frustration is a great way to judge your sessions, will be downloading some programs and checking them out. I will post some hands where I need to figure out a better way to play them. I appreciate all your tips!
@Lewis
It is tough, my ego always get in the way. I mean I can reload again, and gamble some more but now I want to find answers, improve my game. So I figure I will be putting about 4-7 hrs a day into it daily, playing the micro stake(.01-.02) and learn my lessons cheap. :)
Me personally, I feel playing more tables/hands let me not feel the beat as bad. Playing over rolled is always comforting but I'm scare I will be to comfortable and plateau. Personally I'm going to take the aggressive BR style, and try to move up and learn more at each stakes and move down if needed. I feel completely the same way towards live as you about the hand reading(will for me hand feeling lol), something about live is just a bit easier than online. Can't put my finger on it so that's why I figure I ask for help. GL to you my friend.
Bijou: I remember the very first day I play 3/6 limit holdem, I didn't even know what the hell is a pair. All I did in that session was raise every streets then show my cards at the end.
This is actually a reasonable limit hold'em strategy! :-D
My tip to you, if you want to learn, play to learn. You know how research is done in science and industry? Money is spent on experiments, sometimes very costly ones, and valuable data is collected analyzed every which way. If you're on a limited bankroll and want to avoid swings and move up fast, I suggest a similar approach. Push up that win rate by out-researching your opponents.
Play when you're fresh and awake and your mind is light. Do session reviews. It's a good routine to take a few minutes immediately after the session to mark a few hands for review, and perhaps write some HEM notes on opponents. It's a good way to cool down after the session.
Then do the hand review later, perhaps the next day before you play again. Waiting a bit before you look at the hands again makes it easier to be objective (any strong feelings and clouded judgment that you may have had during the session, will now be much less present in your mind).
bijou, glad if I have been of some help. Funny enough the first thought I had on looking at this thread when it was just down to, and including, Phil's post was - "How lucky is this guy that he didn't post like that on 2+2 but on RIO" at best you would have been flamed. RIO seems to me like 2+2 was 12 years ago, a bunch of enthusiastic players who want to work together, share ideas and enjoy one another's success - awesome.
I have two more things to add. Firstly, enjoy the journey and celebrate all your small successes along the way. If you are always worrying about getting to the next level or being the absolute best then you are making life difficult for yourself.
Secondly, study appropriately, watch the right videos and apply the right strategy for the stakes you're playing. There is no point applying something that works at the nosebleeds at small stakes and being amazed at how stupid the villains are. I think the Barry Greenstein quote is "Don't play Beethoven to cows". It's a great idea to watch videos designed for higher levels of play critically, think - why wouldn't that work at my levels?, is there a little of this I can apply? how does this work at .01/.02plo? or does it work? or is the opposite true? That way you are always looking ahead and preparing yourself for the next level.
Contrary to some populist pos books <cough>The Secret<cough> wishing doesn't make it so but if we apply ourselves, really want something, and work hard and well I believe most things are achievable. I for one will be delighted to see you do well and if you are a RIO coach in a couple of years I'll be glad to watch your videos :)
Hi Bijou,
I hear you about finding answers, I think it's why we're all here. I know I definitely am :) The reason I was suggesting a reload is that I thought maybe 0.01 - 0.02 might be tough to focus on, and that maybe something like 0.05 - 0.10 would let you learn the same lessons but would keep your focus better. Just throwing it out there, I know that's what worked for me.
I think the thing with "over-rolled" vs. "properly rolled" (or "not under-rolled") is that some bad beats or variance isn't going to cripple your ability to continue playing properly without having to reload. I think comfortable/plateauing is definitely something to avoid, but if you set tangible goals you might not need to worry about it. For example, I play NL hold em so something like "once I beat NLHE 25 for 2bb/100+ over 100K hands and have 50 buyins for NL 50, I'll take a shot" makes it formulaic when I'd move etc.
Just guessing but i'd suggest that in live, you get a lot more cues, so it's easier to narrow ranges down. Also, if players play a bit more "ABC", then you get extra help on narrowing hands, etc...
Re reducing tables: if you are trying to introduce some new concepts at the tables and doing a lot of extra work on your game, this takes extra time - which can make mass-tabling tough. It sounds like cutting back (for now!) was a good idea. It sounds like some of the tips have worked - congrats so far!
Hi Bijou.
The frustration you feel/felt is something I have a little story about.
My brother has been calling me or sending me pictures almost every time he plays poker at stars. He always want to talk about his bad beats and sends me pictures of his opponents hitting runner runner quads against his flopped trips. He often has money problems and I think that is why he got so frustrated. Last week I got tired of hearing the same old song and then I ask him if he did not get the money in good. He said "yes" and I asked him "Well, what are you unhappy about then?".
You see, that has been my general philosophy for some time but I only started to think about it after I joined Runitonce and watched some of Tom Coldwell's videos. I remember watching him getting sucked out hard but he did not even raise his voice or got annoyed he just said "That's unfortunate" and went on to another table and another hand.
I am from Denmark and I do not know If I am getting my point through here, so please ask me if you need me to clarify anything. Ever since I started to focus on 'just' getting my money in good in stead of checking my $$ after any bad beat my game has improved.
It may sound very simple, but it works for me. Hope it will for you as well.
Another advice I want to give you is in the form of a question. "What is, in your mind, the five most important things to focus on at the level and game you play." I myself have made a list and have been altering it many times since the first one. Make a list -> watch some vids and join the discussions -> See if there is anything to change in the original list you made.
Hope this helps!
Kind regards,
Hi everybody !
I did some searching on the web since i saw recently this interesting post about learning PLO from scratch ! Hope its allowed to post it here, if not than maybe somebody can filter out the things that arent allowed. I believe that together with the tips already given this is a very good read for all starting/ struggling PLO players.
Cheers !
http://en.donkr.com/Articles/plo-from-scratch---part-1-186
Also i would like to add that i have read the books from Jeff Hwang some time ago and it was perfect to help me learn PLO basics.
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