Has Anyone Played On KingsClubPkr?
Posted by Cory Mikesell
Posted by
Cory Mikesell
posted in
Gen. Poker
Has Anyone Played On KingsClubPkr?
This is a web browser based site where you play on credit. The games as expected are incredibly soft even at 5-10 with an ante.
I'm very concerned about the legitimacy of the games however. I play primarily HU online to avoid collusion which I see as a serious issue. I'm playing PLO so the few bots I do encounter (I believe there is at least one on ACR) I actually welcome as they are not particularly strong. My winrate on ACR is over 10bb/100 at high stakes on ACR.
This isn't a disguised bad beat story. I've played HS for years, understand the swings in HUPLO and have played around with variance calculators. I have also been colluded against on Bovada years ago and understand that RNGs are difficult to rig especially without the consent of the operator.
What I have observed: I'm about breakeven on this site over 30k hands. No big deal, really small sample. Most tables are run it twice however. There are a number of players who are clearly losing and I have beaten. There's one strong player on the site that I won't battle with due to high rake.
There are two fish that regularly want to play me HU and I have played most of those 30k hands against them. Its hard to know exactly, but I probably between 60-80 buyins under ev against them. Again this is a lot, but plausible. What worries me most is that players like this (3B 35%+, slow playing some AA pre, linear betting ranges, rarely bluffing rivers) seem to play almost everyday and have not yet gone broke. Certainly it's plausible that they are just that loaded or are some how beating another player, but it's not super likely. It's also possible that they are purely staying afloat because of the way they are running against me and will quickly bust when the luck levels out.
I do get called when I have value OTR so unless they are clever enough to "throw" some hands, I'm probably not getting superused. The only way they could be cheating then is to somehow know what board cards are coming.
Questions I have:
Generally, how do the RNGs on poker sites work? If when you get your cards pre the RNG already knows what board cards were coming that would make cheating with help from the operator more plausible. If the cards are generated randomly after each street, then the above concern is less plausible.
At what point, do you pass on a goldmine because the chances of being cheated are just too high?
Again, I'm not looking for sympathy. I've been been through a lot in poker and understand the game and variance pretty well. My intuition is telling me that something strange is happening on this site mostly based around the point of fish not going broke. I'm interested to hear your thoughts, thanks
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Different sites use different methods for RnG´s. This is how it works on stars:
http://www.pokerstars.tv/en/tv/channels/2014/10/inside-pokerstars---episode-3.shtml
https://www.pokerstars.eu/de/poker/room/features/security/
I play just on stars, so can´t tell you how other operators do it.
Thanks for this. I've wanted to educate myself on the topic of RNGs for awhile.
Thanks for sharing. My IT guy boyfriend and I were discussing RNG in this context, so we will check out these links.
Never heard of this site. I tried to go to (what I assume was) the website and only see a black screen with login and no other info. Seems kinda odd.
Its not a traditional poker site.
@WM2k sorry for being obtuse, but can you be more specific?
EDIT: Ah, the google description has some information if you google it. "A private home game by invite only" -- interesting, thanks!
ACR screen name?
Also, who do you think is a bot?
I just know friends who play the draw games there and never heard of anything suspicious going on.
Okay cool, that's good to know.
"What worries me most is that players like this (3B 35%+, slow playing some AA pre, linear betting ranges, rarely bluffing rivers) seem to play almost everyday and have not yet gone broke. Certainly it's plausible that they are just that loaded or are some how beating another player, but it's not super likely. It's also possible that they are purely staying afloat because of the way they are running against me and will quickly bust when the luck levels out."
You've been playing for "years" and can't understand how recreational players have money to keep playing?
Well, if you're going to use the Strawman Fallacy when attempting to refute my analysis, it will be difficult for us to have a constructive conversation.
I'm not referring to fish as a general population of which there are plenty. I'm referring to a site with less than 15 players (playing these particular games and stakes) and two fish in particular that can play high stakes nearly everyday. Losing at -15bb/100 or something similar will become costly unless you are super well off. Most fish will also have day jobs. It's plausible that the players I'm referring to are professionals, but it's hard to imagine that they are winning in virtually any line up which again reduces the chances (maybe slightly or maybe by a wider margin) of the games being legitimate.
I play on kingw clubpkr. Do you have an agent you buy in through? i would ask them about the RNG.
Cory, I have been playing here and couldn't agree more. I get it that no one wants to hear bad beat stories, but the way I am losing hands or in many cases chopping pots is absurd. I have discussed this recently with multiple people (along with the same problem on PPP) and there is a consensus that, due to the game wanting to collect rake, the worst players will not go broke. I have been saving hands and runouts that just show how ludicrous things are. Again, I am not proposing I am getting bad beat a lot - it just goes beyond mere bad beat stories. The trend I notice is that the boards generate action - and specifically turn cards really are meant to get stacks in. And then somehow more than 80% of the pots I see are chopped on the run it time games. I have even experimented with slow playing alot more, and not going all in when I feel I'm 80%+ and in those spots, I still somehow lose to the wackiest runouts. Does this happen in real life sometimes? of course? But the general idea seems to be...max rake, max chopped pots, and don't let the fish go broke.
I have been uncomfortable talking about this publicly because I don't want to give people nefarious ideas, but there is a HUGE problem with web browser based sites. My girlfriend is a skilled programmer and I showed her these browser based sites and she says:
1) they can be easily hacked to show all hole cards to the hacker
2) unlike an app which is regularly updated (the update ruins the hack), a browser based hack will work in perpetuity
3) The operator of an app will know when the site is hacked and the operator of the web browser based site will not know they've been hacked. This means the site operator can be totally honest and there can still be superusers
I would steer well clear of these sites.
100% agree. And I think this should be put out there publicly. To expand on what I said earlier, I have spoken with 4 very good mixed game and straight PLO players who played on the site...These are all very solid live winners and players I would even say are experts in their field of play. None of them show any sort of profit. All have expressed concern over the runouts once the money goes in and the number of chopped pots relative to the equity when the money goes in. I am going to have to consider this an expensive lesson on my part and a massive mistake in ever playing here.
I played and quit the site due to results despite the games seeming good. I know a couple large long-time winners (not PLO).
Have been playing on it for about 2 months, although most of my volume has been limit mix. Haven't personally noticed anything sketchy seeming, but the nature of it being on a browser-based interface is concerning. I believe I"m running a bit below expectation to date, but nothing crazy. I've had some big winning weeks and some big losing weeks, and in-between.
Hey guys very interesting conversation. I am feeling similar Eventho I have been winning big on this platform for almost a year. I would be very happy to talk some privat in Skype for example. Regards
Are peeps still playing here?
Just curious to see people’s impressions nowadays.
I only play for peanuts on the site (so take what I say with a grain of salt), but I haven't noticed any issues. I do run a little bad on the site overall so far, but not out of the realm of possibility.
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