GTO river range contstruction help

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GTO river range contstruction help

Hey everybody, sorry if this is in the wrong area. I'm currently working on designing multiple river value:bluff contruction, and I was wondering if my range at the river is influenced by the line we take to arrive at the river. Are we supposed to be designing ranges for bet bet bet,
bet check bet, and check bet bet? And also does position play a factor when constructing optimal river ranges?

For example, say hero is CO vs villian OTB
Hero decides to bet 1/2 pot at the river on As 7h 2d 3h Kc

Hero's value betting range would look something like:
AA, 77, 22, 33,
AK, A7o,
A3s, A2s
AJs+
AJo+
which is 58 combos, so hero needs 19 bluff combos in order to make villian indifferent.

So hero's bluff range could look something like
QJ-98hh, 65hh
QThh-T8hh, 86hh, 64hh
Q9hh
Q8hh, J8hh,
44
which is 19 combos.

Notice how I designed these ranges for a bet, bet, bet line. Hero would always take this line with his VALUE bet,bet,bet range and his triple barrel bluffing range by the river. And these ranges make sense for CO vs BTN, because hero would never play Q8hh, or J8hh in an earlier position.

So that all makes sense and is fine and dandy, but what happens if hero had taken a Bet check bet line instead, and hero bets 1/2 pot at the river? Do I need to design entirely new ranges for value/bluffs at the river?

So I'm thinking:

For value:
KK
K7ss K7dd
KQ, KJ, KT,
41 combos

So i need (41/.75) -41 = 14 bluff combos

For bluffs
QJss, QJcc, QJdd
and 2/3 of QJo
which is roughly 14 combos.

Am I doing it right?

And what about position? Do I need an entirely different river range construction based on my position? Like obviously I can't include Q8hh and J8hh and if I were opening UTG.

Correct?

3 Comments

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Chezy 9 years, 8 months ago

I'm sorta new at this my self but i don't think a bet check bet line with KQ,KJ,KT is very good if that is your value range including the other hands and i'm curious what do you do with your weak aces then? Do you check those on the flop? If you bet them on the flop do you check turn and bet river? i think the hands of the weaker 2P you rivered that you check the turn with maybe you should still check the river to protect your weak aces because when you check weak aces on turn then if you bet 2P on river then you leave weak aces with nothing but a hero call and often you will be beat. I also have a problem with the AJ+ VB river why would you bet under neath his capped range with AJ when he can have AQ? I'm am just throwing out suggestions and questioning you to spark discussion so don't take anything i say offensive. I don't think AJ will hero call you to much and i think you get medium to small pocket pairs to fold by the turn. I also think 1/2 pot betting river is way to weak of a bet you lose to much value on your value hands and i think your bluffs get called to often. Keep in mind the more you fire barrels the stronger his value range becomes. Are we assuming our opponent is GTO. I prefer to bet 3/4 pot honestly to make his indifference tougher to call and work from there. Keep in mind i am no expert in GTO but i started to do a bit of work off the tables on this my self. I come to the conclusion that i feel GTO will cost you money in the long run and i prefer to play exploitable. That doesn't mean i won't try to help and figure it out my self because that is just what i like to do. GL and hope to hear from you soon.

ps. forgive me for sloppy writing, i suck at writing hopefully you under stand what i meant and said.

BigFiszh 9 years, 8 months ago

Yeah, in theory you had to develop a strategy (= range) for any single possible line, i.e. b, b, b / b, x b / x, b, b etc.

In practice this is almost "impossible" to do in a vacuum - at least it's not an efficient use of time. Try to "solve" situations for good strategies and do that often enough to strengthen your feeling for range construction.

Lines and/or positions only take effect as far as ranges are concerned. If you get to the river with fixed range A vs. fixed range B it's completely irrelevant what happened before or if you are oop (with range A) or in position (with range B), optimal strategies are always the same for given ranges.

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