Giving up poker for now
Posted by Daz
Posted by Daz posted in Beats & Brags
Giving up poker for now
Results have continued to be poor, and my mental game performance is quite shocking. I haven't been able to fully regain my confidence and running bad affects me too much. I have a lot of accumulated emotion that needs to be flushed out completely.
I'm actually not too sure what i'm going to do but i do have some time now to think about it. Gonna continue to write and setup a blog to create a resource for other aspiring players so that they don't make the same mistakes i did. i do think i have something to contribute to the community even if i wasn't successful. Although i was able to support myself for several years ultimately i do think i have failed my parents, family, gf and myself.
i do feel i've learnt a lot and have the tools to do well BUT my application is really bad (mental game errors like not trusting my gut instinct for instance) and the money/time/energy invested isn't giving me the returns profit/happiness/satisfaction that i would like.
It feels odd being beaten by a game when i still see so much profit to be made on the tables. I think the worst enemy has been myself and further self-reflection will have me discover what really happened.
Thank you so much to everyone who contributed/posted and advised me during my time on RIO. i may still stop by now and again.
Good luck and best wishes for 2014
Daz
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I'm sad to hear this Daz. From your posts, I have at least gathered that you have a deep passion for the game and like the challenge it provides. Don't feel like you have failed yourself, your love, or your parents. Your pursuit should be incessant; the real failure would be to walk away knowing that you are good enough to be successful. I won't lie, this game that we love so much is cold and harsh like the winter winds but we have to endure. If multi tabling online isn't working, try live games, or play plo, or take a break and come back. It's hard to trust your instincts when you play with a burden - a burden of perfection, of not failing. These things are hard to fix because you may have bills to pay at the end of the day etc. I implore you to keep exploring within the realm of the game and find your niche. Poker provides an amazing freedom in my opinion, dont give this freedom up that easily. Maybe better opportunities are lying out there for you, who knows, but you dont want to ask 'What could have been...' to yourself a few years from now when you are working a 9-5? Don't give up yet, there's still a fight to be fought.
Those are just my opinions based on reading your past posts. I sincerely think you can make it
Good luck Daz, in whatever you choose to do.
- A fellow poker player :)
Thank you for your response
I have depleted my bankrolls while trying to get through a prolonged downswing and i've been playing very poorly. I do still have my apartment but i feel like if i get money now to play poker i will just through it away - the discipline is gone. I've become quite pessimistic. i just don't feel like if i sit down and play i'm going to win. Its ingrained in me that no matter my knowledge or player reads, i'm still at the mercy of the river card.
This hand below sums up my last year of poker. Game select:playing versus recreational/unorthodox players, have a good read on my opponent, have a strong hand that loses to only a few outs OR few combos, then 'read' your opponent to have beat you but call anyway because the discipline/confidence is gone to trust your instinct AND/OR you know he is recreational and will occasionally random spaz bluff - I will make a mental game post about these similar spots.
http://weaktight.com/6465152 (i will def make a more detailed mental game post to follow)
His flop lead is midpair/draws. The river pot is ofc polarised to Jx OR random spaz
Daz, try out live poker.
You should be able to make way more money in the casino at 1/2 than at 50NL online.
Not sure how much money you expect to make there, but you'll probably have to win 3 buy ins or so a day to be a pro. That's not an easy thing to do unless you're a huge favourite in those line ups.
If you play 1/2 at the casino, you can play all evening to grind out 3/4 buy in.
I started with 1.5 buy ins at 1/2 live after not having playing poker in 6 months and being around a 50NL level player, and within 10 sessions I'd ran it up to 2k.
That's not a brag post, I'm just saying you should do better than I did, and make more than enough money to support yourself, and build up your online roll.
Quit for 6 months and play live, and studying on RIO, and then go back.
As for the hand you posted: Call flop, and fold river.
He's never donking Ax for pot, so you only beat KQ/QT, some of which may 3-bet pre-flop in a 3-handed game.
There are some really good cash games where i stay. I was playing live for a month and ran bad in several key very deep-stacked monster pots - which was quite frustrating. the one still comes to mind top set versus two flush draws three-way AI OTF, the black Ace of Spades peels off OTR and a 10 buy in pot gets shipped in the other direction.
I'm taking a break from the game then might try live but right now, gotta do something else besides poker.
Taking a break is fine, but please try live poker again.
You should easily be able to make enough money in those games.
Switching tables when possible is nice if you want to buy in for 100BB again.
So i tried some LIVE Poker. Grinded out a few buy ins each day in a soft $1/$2 (deepstacked) games where you can almost tell what their cards are everytime. Played a 800bb+ pot with a flopped straight versus a flush draw AI on the flop... drawing dead turn and i'm back to square one again. A repeat of my LIVE play in 2013. My friend even came over to see "if its possible that i can lose another one of these again"
You just said you have a huge edge, but got unlucky.
Go back and keep grinding. If possible, switch tables to avoid stacks getting too deep.
My edge increases when my opponents overplay their hands deepstacked, i just needed to hold. I'm tired of whining like a little bitch, i'm also so fucking tired of picking up small- to medium sized pots the whole day/evening only to have the opponent(s) 'donate' their 250bb+stack to me only to get saved by a turn or river card. Villain raised a flush draw into two players with ZERO fold equity facing a pot size bet, i had flopped a straight and the other guy a set...
I definitely agree about trying live poker. I started playing 10/20 with a BR of 3k (go figure). Ran that up to 20k. Busted that. Deposited $1k on stars, played 3/6. Ran it up to 5k. Then played 5/10. Ran it up to 13k. Went back to live. Ran it up to 30k. Then had to take a break for couple of months due to school work. Went back and haven't looked back since. Just have to be relentless in your pursuit. You definitely have the talent. I know all about running bad and downswings believe me but that happens to everybody. Maybe live poker will enable you in different ways where physical/verbal cues make your reads even more solid. Take a break and get a decent bankroll (5-6k) to start off with 1/2 live. Making the right decisions will be easier when you are completely focused on just one table. Good luck and keep us updated :)
Where do you play? How tough are 10/20 live games?
Ye, i did some work on nonverbal communication and facial expressions - Paul Ekman comes to mind. If i had an area of weakness in my LIVE play it would be understanding my image better. Opponents seem to want to call me down all day, like no-one ever believes i have anything when in my mind i'm sitting there trying to nut-peddle because everyone is so call down happy haha
Let's just say not at a casino and I'll leave the rest for you to figure out :P. I think they are probably at the same level as 600nl online these days. 1Knl online are definitely harder though.
After sorting things out and (presumably) getting a job, you can still play poker on the side. For extra income and getting mileage out of your past experience and the time spent learning. Sounds like a sweet deal to me, and it also makes good sense.
Best of luck!
Daz, I am only saddened by your unhappiness about stopping playing poker for a living. Personally, I feel you have shown great determination and commitment to giving it your best shot and exploring every avenue you can. No one could say you haven't tried.
Now you've reassessed your situation and decided on the sensible course of action. And having decided that, you are putting it into effect - it sounds like a mature and sensible thing to do.
I don't think you have let anyone down - I'm sure all those close to you want you to be balanced and happy, for your benefit and theirs. You're working towards that - what more can anyone do?
I won't encourage you to carry on, or play live, it seems like you could do with a complete break now - but that doesn't mean you can't take it up again in the future, I always thought poker made a much better secondary income than primary one anyway.
Congratulations on taking control of your life and good luck!
Hey man, I don't think you should feel at all like you failed your family/et all. You attempted and had success at something and then were able to walk away from it when you evaluated that it was no longer the best thing for you. That is the definition of "not a failure" in my opinion. It takes courage and commitment and strength of character to do all those those things, and im not just blowing smoke up your ass to make you feel better. I think you should feel proud of the work you put in, and it was obvious from all your posts that you put in lots of work, and should feel proud of the success you had. Poker is really weird in the fact that not only do you have to have mental aptitude but you need very developed emotional skills as well. I honestly believe that with edges the way they are now, the emotional component is more important than the mental for the vast majority of people. Emotion is a lot harder to train up as you well know. Maybe after a long break you find the missing pieces in that area or with time away and further life experience you come back at a different place and one where those issues are no longer your road block, only time will tell. But above all I think you should hold your head high and feel good about your time spent at poker and feel no shame in walking away. I know that likely sounds incredibly stupid given how you feel, but its the honest truth. Best of luck to you
This is very true. Being able to make a living from the game for a long time means OP succeeded. And circumstances have changed, so he has decided to move on instead of continuing to struggle. To me, that counts as one win + one smart life-decision. All good.
Very interesting, i was watching a Tony Robbin's TED Talk from 2012 and this is exactly what came up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwFOwyoH-3g. The emotional skills, resources versus resourcefulness. I may definitely be deficit in this area. I will need to channel my emotions better in order to succeed
I did a Personality Test http://www.16personalities.com/ and it may be my emotional weakness that is affecting my performance more than anything else. I am an ENFJ btw
I totally get this "Although i was able to support myself for several years ultimately i do think i have failed my parents, family, gf and myself. "
I felt the exact same after losing close to 80k in 6 months, crazy thing is that even though my family and gf knew I was running bad and losing sh#t loads of cash everyday, none of them ever said I should give up. None of them ever doubted me. I'm 23 and I made 1 million in my currency before I turned 21 playing live, took me 3 years to get there and 6 months to lose 80% of it online.
Poker is such a brutal game man, (Bad beats, Swings and running bad really gets to you) and when your running good, winning 10k doesn't feel as good as loosing 10k feels bad, but even when I lost almost 90% of my net worth, I never gave up. Family and friends/gfriends will never tell you that you have let them down if they truly care for you (Although to you it might feel like you have, you haven't)
I felt just like you do before I joined this site, read my first post, I was about to give up. This game doesn't care a fck about you, you need to care enough about it though to be successful.
Hope my post was somewhat helpful and goodluck!
Daz,
Although this is sad to hear, I have a lot of respect for you. It takes a lot of courage to admit something like this, and the fact that you posted it here makes it even more difficult.
I hope nothing but the best for you, and I'm sure we would all be very happy to see you stick around. I know I could learn from your success, as well as from your mistakes.
Best of luck,
nH
EDIT: (Introverted 60%, Intuitive 29%, Thinking 74%, Prospecting 11%), resulting in INTP
there is more to life than poker so go enjoy it :)
GL off the felt!
Hi Daz. Have you think about getting a mental coach? I was going through a terrible downsing like yours (but with less money since I play low stakes) and my worst problem was my mental game. I hired a mental coach (not jared tendler, another one, really "payable"), and only in one hour it changed me completely. If you want to try it, I can give you his skype. Hope that helps.
I used to correspond with Jared via email and forums way before he brought out his books. I've worked through MGoP 1 + 2 and would work on my mental game everyday. The accumulated emotion is not as easy to resolve although i'm trying my best to work on it. But i have cash flow problems too. And i'm also looking for real balance in my life. I want to re-structure things so that i'm really giving back to society and helping others and poker in itself is too linear. I'm hoping the website may fulfill some of what i've been feeling and may help me furhter explore what i'm truly passionate about.
I am willing to try anything so might PM you later.
Daz I wish you all the best whatever you decide to do. You helped my a lot with your answers. Thanks for that. I was running terrible since I started playing again but last month every PP hits set. I feel kinda ashamed for it :)
If I were you I would go traveling to some warm places to start appreciating life again and reconnect with myself. Perhaps you can rent out your apartment. If you live modestly it should more than cover your stay in many (SE) Asian countries. You can also start thinking from other perspective while lying on the beach with cold beer in your hand. It might prevent you from rushing into something that you might regret later.
In any case all the best and good luck! May the force be with you!
I'm glad i was able to assist you.
I have been renting out my apartment while living in Asia. Unfortunately, i under-estimated my living expenses and didn't account for unexpected life challenges.
Ultimately i want to branch out with my life. I want help others, publish my thoughts and hopefully in doing so learn what really drives me. I think poker by itself isn't fulfilling me. When things go well it does help me to achieve a few things namely traveling, be my own boss, flexibility BUT i think with more creativity, resourcefulness, a business etc i can achieve all that without relying on poker solely AND having passive income will help tremendously. I haven't quite figured out how to do all this but i'm taking the time now to give it some proper thought.
I know exactly how you feel man. I am currently going through a huge downswing and it really seems never ending. I am thinking about taking sometime off until the World series. Good Luck
I've been back on the grind this last month, some reasonable results. I'm feeling much better overall but poker is definitely much harder to make a reasonable return. Some days are so tough
Hey Daz....what is you're br management plan. 40 buyins? 50?
I will hopefully have 50bi by the end of sunday, but then i have to withdraw for expenses so will be back down to 20BI. i'm planning to grind hard every day for the whole month of April so hopefully will get it back up - i do want 100BI asap .. and playing higher stakes.
Well its been one year and I'm still at it. Winning 5bb/100 over 500k sample $50-$200.
I've discovered meditation and yoga, practising everyday.
I'm looking for a poker coach to help me get to $2/$4 $2.5/$5. ideally, someone that has worked through Will Tipton's material as well as has a healthy, positive outlook on life and enjoys similar interests.
There are plenty of challenges i'm facing but handling things a lot better. To all the RIO members I hope your 2015 is going well too!
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