From 10NL to 1kNL, let a guy dream
Posted by emsterdad
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emsterdad
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Poker Journals
From 10NL to 1kNL, let a guy dream
My journey in poker started 12 years ago. I started to play at a homegame with some buddies. At some point the homegame dried out but I loved poker so much that I signed up at Pokerstars. I have a tendency that I can get pretty obsessive around stuff very quickly so before I knew it I bought books and even ended up paying for a subscription at Deucescracked. Before that happened, I was a member of twoplustwo and got my first coach there. I played Full Ring and my first coach was Splitsuit. It's fun to see that after 12 years this guy is still doing his thing. He was a very nice guy and also gave me some very clear guidelines how to beat FR. I was running super hot then playing a very 12/9 nitty style, until I became more like a 14/11 or something type player. FR was very calm for me. I liked the nitty approach because there seemed to be less variance. It also wasn't all that chaotic.
Not sure why, but at some point I found 6-max. What happened with 6-max is that it made me from a TAG in FR, a LAG in 6-max. I wanted to play every hand, wanted to 3-bet people.. and really loved the adrenaline and action. But I was losing. So that's where I signed up for DC. There, I was a very active member being in several coaching videos (something they did a lot with member) which was a great learning experience. I also had some private coaching, for example from Threads13. I read he passed away. RIP. I was at the end of my 20s but was still very much into poker. I really wanted to make a career out of it and saw myself playing with the Krantz from this world. The reality was that I was still stuck at 25nl and was never really capable of getting my game under control and also not my tilt. I met my wife, life took over with work, building a career and now after 12 years, I really felt like playing again. PokerStars is not allowed here any longer, Full Tilt is of course long gone. So I signed up at Holland Casino since I am dutch.
I decided to look up Runitonce because I always kept a bit of an eye on what happened in the poker world, and with Upswing this is I believe still the best site, eventhough I am a bit suprised how the forum is really not that active (remember, I come from a time and place where 1 hand would be discussed for 3 pages with memes in between). I bought from the ground up and also have an essential membership for 1 month. I also bought No-limit Hold'em for Advanced players. Just to get a better understanding how the games are played these days.
I am now playing at 10NL. My goal would be to hit 100NL. This will take a long grind because I have a busy life with work 40-45 hours a week and having a family, but poker just is something I enjoy doing at least at night.
After 12 years, I don't see myself tilting very quickly anymore. There is no pressure to "be somewhere" in poker so losing to a bad beat doesn't meant somebody "took away some time to hit a certain level". I do notice I still have the tendency to play to loose. Personally, I think I would be better of playing around 24/20 but for some reason I always end up in the 27/28 VPIP. The reason I think tight might be better for me is because I feel like in poker its so easy to start overthinking stuff. "Ohh yeah check raise on the flop.. sure, he just has enough of me 3-betting him constantly..Oh no, oops.. he just has top set". I also think my skill-level is either slightly better or slightly worse than the regulars. So it doesn't make much sense to me to have a way higher VPIP. Then again, the bad players are still really bad.
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Had a interesting convo with a coach on the forum. On lower stakes, playing tight is better because of rake and most people just call too often.
First of all. Good luck with your goal!
I think the biggest difference between low and higher stakes is that you should avoid to pay rake. This incentives less flatting and more 3-betting to avoid the rake. Not possible on gg due to preflop rake. Still you can 3-bet over 10% on average, because the pool is especially oop too tight with 4-betting + they calling too much. Therefore the hands that get mixed in for example nl100 preflop solutions can used pure as an exploit because the equity realization is very good because we will see way too often the showdown compared to „gto“ players.
Played disciplined, but perhaps could have played even more disciplined. VPIP/PFR = 21/19 which is a big step tighter. 3 bet around 5 which is also a lot tigher than normal.
The game is relaxter to play like this. And its fun to have a best hand pre.
@kalupso made a good point
My turn AFQ and river AFQ seem a bit low.
Also, it's amazing to see how much I get paid off while playing like a nit.
Best wishes on your journey to 1kNL emsterdad!
Haha Lets first get to 100nl :) that seems to be a pretty hard challenge these days!
Curious about your grind and playing routine. Career and family might make things more complicated in a way, still looking for my own path on this.
Hi, yeah, I can’t expect from myself that I play as much as when I was in my 20s and no responsibility. Poker for me is not about making money, it’s a mental challenge. I like competition. So that’s also a different mindset than in my 20s where i wanted to make a career out of this.
I play sometimes in between stuff. So during the weekends 20 and 15 and 28 minutes here and there. During the week, I play on my laptop downstairs or go to my home office and play there. Only in the evening. Studying I also do in between stuff. So couple of pages of reading during work and watching a part of a video from run it once on mobile.
One big plus about having young children is that a social life is non existent anyway. And I mean that partly joking.
Butcher1848 I never fully understood why rake is such a problem, could you explain like I am 3? Also, 3-betting wider for value so taking down the pot pre flop so no rake is being paid? is that what you mean?
The higher the rake in BB/100 is, the more capped your theoretical winrate ceiling is. When the rake is higher, you're more incentivized to play 3bet/fold strategies in spots where you would typically have a flatting range IP e.g. BTNvCO open. This limits the numbers of hands you play in small pots where you pay a large % of rake at low stakes.
Yeah, when we win the pot then usually we dont pay rake. The exception is GG where you still pay rake when you 3-Bet preflop. One of the reasons why we are playing a linear 3-Bet range ip is that we dont have a flatting range. Because the rake is quite high that having a flatting range is -ev for some of the hands that would like to flat.
Got it, so do we make our value 3-betting just wider? So reg opens, we have 88 and instead of flat for set mining we 3-bet?
Also, do you know why it costs money to play more loosely in the micros?
Hey emsterdad. I saw that you mentioned you had coaching from threads13 (Jacob). I actually had coaching from him myself back in 2013. I think it was $50 an hour and I had 8 sessions with him. You are correct that he sadly passed away. I read an obituary online and it said he died from brain cancer in June 2019.
I also read that he was originally diagnosed with the cancer 7 years before he died. He beat the cancer once, but then it returned and killed him. I last talked to him about 5 years before he died. I actually parted ways with him as my coach (I don't want to say "fired" but if you wanted to call it that, you could) because I felt my game was stagnating and I was having some doubts about the stuff he was telling me to do. I was playing 25NL at that time. I also posted on reddit a few years ago where I asked other players for their thoughts about the advice Threads gave me about how to play specific hands. Several people said the advice he gave was horrible. I can also give you the link to that post if you are interested. I wonder to this day if Threads already had the cancer when he was coaching me, and that affected his judgment. That is just a theory of mine. I don't want to be too hard or disrespectful to someone who has died, but I spent a significant amount of money on coaching from him (relative to my bankroll) and I was disappointed. I later got coaching from another coach - Matt Doran, who was a coach on Cardrunners at the time, and I got along much better with him. I believe he plays mid-stakes PLO now.
Yeah really a sad story. It’s always hard when a young person dies. I don’t remember much from his coaching. I remember most that he loved to steal the blinds haha I am not sure
how long I worked with him, there were several people I worked with. Also some Irish guy but perhaps that was still FR.
I have spend hundreds, maybe over 1000 euro on coaching and it never made a significant change to making me a winning player. Except for Splitsuit when I literally knew nothing and hired him to show me the ropes. If that’s them or me, I don’t know. Probably both. Coaching is damn hard. A great player won’t make you a great coach
I dislike 3-betting for value with a wider range. I do think I understand a bit the idea behind that if you can flat call you can probably also raise. However, it feels like I am just bloating up a pot with hands that often miss the flop, deliver higher cards on the flop and it just cost me a lot more.
For example, if a 22/19 raises pre flop to 30c and I have TT I can call this 30c. Now the flop comes Axx.. He c-bet and I call.. The pot is now something above 1 euro and it stays comfortable for such a hand.
Now, same situation, I 3-bet and he decides to flat. now the pot is already 20bb and nothing happened post flop. If I bet, now I am with 7 euro or something in my stack with not much I can do post flop. I just need to fold often to a bet on the turn or the river.
You 3bet Axx with TT. CBet 25% and you get a ton of folds on the flop and rarely face a XR. $$$ :)
It's very high EV to 3bet anything and cbet.
Personally I think stuff like protecting our range etc. just isnt needed in a microstakes pool where so many people, even regulars, stay relatively oblivious to what you are doing.
The 3-betting / 4-betting game, that happens a bit at the microstakes. So there, I sometimes get in a 4-bet bluff to not have a 2% 4-betting range only consisting of KK+, AKs+
One thing I also noticed is that you "exploit" that 3-betting / 4-betting game a bit by not 4-betting shoving, but just make it a bit more than 2x. So I raise to 30c pre flop, they raise to 90c. and I make it 2 euro. They can now call or shove with worse (or win if I am bluffing) but if they shove with worse.. That's great. Especially on a level where people start to overthink stuff easily. I notice it about myself so others must have this too. The feeling that I have been 3-betting so much so now this guys most be 4-betting light.
If I just 4-bet shove instead of making it 2euro then I only get called with their best hands and they wont make a mistake. But even there I am probably just like everybody else a complete nit when it comes to 4-betting light. Axs might become a 4-bet, broadways.. And that's it.
Not sure if anything else happens at the microstakes where we already need to think about the things 200nl+ regs need to think about (or 100nl regs? I am not sure where that starts.)
As a side note. I have been playing like a complete nit last week to see if I could do it and it amazes me how people call me with A high, 3rth pair etc just because they want to see if I am not bluffing. And this is also done by regulars. I can be fishy like that myself while I don't need the small EV to win and move up to 20nl.
I think the lesson I am learning is between small EV and big EV. From my limited understanding, a bluff catch for example, sure can be profitable.. but only small. Same goes for a lot of the "fancy"/advanced stuff and playing a wider range of hands (24+vpip). If your player pool is so that you need to small EV lines to be a winning player you need to go after those. But the microstakes pool is so that people stack off versus your KK with A4s pre flop.. Or call of 3 large bets with 3rd pair. So we don't need to small EV stuff. It's just ego.
Kalupso maybe I just running a bit bad, I get called constantly lol
I flagged you. Thought that was a reply button. Sorry
Admins: Kalupso is cool, as you probably know
Edit: Just played like you saisd. People actually fold a lot.
IP is very nice to 3bet wide in softer games because people lack 4bets and XR-es. OOP I recommend going a bit tighter and sizing up. If your 3bet stat is under 9, you need to work a lot on 3brtting more. 11 is what you get if you 3bet a lot and don't flat much.
Kalupso what would you say is the balance between for value and for a bluff? I would imagine that i did it as a bluff more, so I would keep a very tight 3 betting range for value. But perhaps it’s the other way around
Just 3bet linear at small stakes but favour suited hands over off suited when OOP. Flat AJo but 3bet A5s. Overall linear but with 54s-T9s hands and vary frequency by how wide IP opens (position and player). When IP 3betting you can rank hands similar to opening. BvB you need to 3bet polarized vs regs. Against the more extreme players you should tweak the ranges a bit more.
One thing for me to take into consideration is the rake. At my site, it's 7.5% for 10nl (I for every 15c pot I pay 1c with a max of 1 euro) and 5% for 20nl. It stays 5% at 50nl and also at 100nl. So this demands from me a tighter gameplay.
It might make me go over to PokerStars once I can because I see the rake there is 4.50%. That stays like that until 16nl and after that it also becomes 5%.
7.5% seems a lot compared to 4.5%. Does anybody know how to calculate what it would mean for a winrate?
What I also totally overlooked was that in order to beat the rake, I should not only play tigher pre flop but also post flop. Because a marginal winning situation might actually turn into a losing one if the rake cuts so deeply in my winrate.
What I don't understand that it doesnt get any better than 5%. I always thought at stakes higher than 100nl the rake got much better.
What i think change, is the max money they can take. Lets say is always 5% and max they can take is 2$.
If you are playing nl25 those 2 dollars are a lot, while if you are playing nl500, its basically a small blind.
Thats probably what is making smaller stakes more sensible to rake
Hey thank you for the response and I didn't even think of that. It's true. There is a max money they can take. At 50nl, this becomes 3 euro max. At 10nl and 20nl it's 2 euro max. At higher stakes this stays.
So at 10nl this is still 20% of a 100% all in.
Best of luck bro, here for your journey
Thank! You too!
Running a bit bad. For example, flopping a set on 2JJ multiway and losing to quads. Or a fish calling a huge 3 bet, getting it in on the flop and losing to two pair (..that comes on the turn, he had 52 .. on a 5 T 8 board.), getting it in as a mad favourite but splitting the pot on a 2345 board .. because, hey, both an A
In the mean time, I am still break even. And because of rakeback, I am also up in money overall.
I hope at some point it will turn around, because I do feel like I am playing better and better.
One of the biggest changes must have been playing tigher. I went from around 25 vpip to below 20 vpip because of a new understanding about paying rake. Thanks to some of the forum members and 1 coach who was nice enough th explain in depth.
I have been considering adding some money to the bankroll to be able to play 20nl where the rake is 5% instead of 7.5% but for now I decided to just keep grinding. I can afford it, however, I do think it might create a bad habbit of depositing more. With a 240 bankrol, it's 16 bi's to go for me to move to 20nl.. But I really want to avoid creating a habit where I have 380 euro and think.. ahh.. lets deposit another 200 euro so I can play 50nl.. etc. On the other hand, if the rake is really the reason (I also sometimes play bad. Like 3-betting a MP open from a 23/18 with QKo, call his 4-bet IP and then stack off on a Q high board versus AA because he has such a low fold to 3-bet stat) I am still stuck at 10nl in 3-4 months from now, I will def. reconsider because 7.5% obviously is very high. I do like the site. I like the fact that the company is a trusted company in the country I live in and based on Ipoker software. I will probably not move to PokerStars, even when they come back to our country. But that might be a bit of a sidestory.
Playing around 18/16 vpip/pfr is a whole different world then what I am used too but I do think I am getting a better understanding about a lot of stuff and I also actually like to be disciplined and fold hands that I would have always raised previously. Like J9s from the CO.
Got some great advice around playing tighter,
"I don't think that playing niche spots is going to help you a lot. Just play solid overall is much more important as it will come about more often.
That's why studying should be based in EV times the frequency you get into that situation. Why so much focus on videos is about BB vs BTN or Flop play.
Searching for spots you find more difficult seems against our initial goal, making money :D"
Niche spots....... slightly +EV........ Let's for now just focus on tight aggressive play, linear 3-betting, a lot of folding and getting to 20nl where the rake is 5%. Perhaps I can loosen up from 18/16 to 20/18 then :p
One thing I forgot to mention. I changed the settings in my poker client. I don’t see money any longer but BB. Super positive impact because calling 30c is easier than bb
Look how good I am syndrom
Something I am noticing on the low stakes is that a lot of regs find it more important to show how much they know about 3 betting (and all kinds of reg versus erg stuff) than just playing solid poker.
I notice it because of the stats. Many have not found the conclusion that rake kills your profit. There aren’t many 18-15s in this game but a lot of 25/21, 27/24, 29/24.
I also notice it about myself. Wanting to do certain things like 3 betting 86s but without any knowledge of the other regular. Does he has a high fold to 3 bet?
To keep myself a bit more sharp I went from 2 tables to 4. Playing very tight and 2 tables is not working for me.
Yesterday I was down 5 bi's. two pair versus turn drawn straight versus 55/32, and just .. bad stuff like that. Easy to get tilted and perhaps was a bit. However, I got it back down to 2,5 bi's lost which I found a big accomplishment.
People really don't adjust, by the way. I got a 3-bet type of hand almost every time a regular open raised.. and he just kept folding over and over and over.. and over. Very strong on his part or he just didn't notice. Also opened my eyes a bit about adjustable ranges when 3-betting.
Yesterday I was down 5 bi's. two pair versus turn drawn straight versus 55/32, and just .. bad stuff like that. Easy to get tilted and perhaps was a bit (I got it in versus a 57/43 who cold 4-betted me all-in from the SB and I called with AJo. He had AA. Stuff like that is perhaps bad play or bad run because I have seen enough Ax, low pairs and crazy stuff.. but perhaps not in a cold 4-bet. Not sure if I would have called in a 100% non-tilted mindset). However, I got it back down to 2,5 bi's lost which I found a big accomplishment (which would have been 1.5 without the AJo hand which just shows how important it is to make my C-game better and better. For example, I did not become more loose or anything).
People really don't adjust, by the way. I got a 3-bet type of hand almost every time a regular open raised.. and he just kept folding over and over and over.. and over. Very strong on his part or he just didn't notice. Also opened my eyes a bit about adjustable ranges when 3-betting.
Today I had a winning session even when a 30/9 constantly won against me.
I do think I get a bit to excited by 3-betting causing more variance in my game than necessary. 24/21 opens UTG and if I see this pretty 68s on the BTN I just can’t help myself and I 3-bet. Also, when I could be folding a QKo versus a MP open, I decide to 3-bet. I think my 3-betting range is a bit out of balance and causes some swings that doesn’t really fit with my overall 19/16 type of game strategy.
Tomorrow I will focus on 3betting TT+, AQs+, AKo and A5s-A2s. This might turn me into a 3 betting % of 6? But does it really matter? Fish pay off anyhow and for now people probably still have 10+ stats on me anyhow.
What i do need to do more often is isolate bad players wider for value. 30/17 opens from MP. I should 3 bet my 88 here and not flat.
I had the same habit. Drill ranges now! It’s almost a hack for improving.
Did some pokerstove. TT+, but also some other suited broadways can be in there if I want around 6% 3-bet. This means tighter versus some and wider value with other players. This will mean around 6-7 % which is wide enough so I don’t have only the nuts when I 3 bet which might make it very easy to play against me
CrappyTimeSlot I super appreciate you telling me you had the same habit. And it indeed feels like drilling. Just pressing fold, every time it just doesn't fit the range. It's also kind of silly, right? "a beautiful looking hand like 68s".
What I also notice now I am tightening up so much (with opening, but now also with having a solid 3-betting range) is that I get a better understanding what others are doing. For example, somebody with a 9 3-betting %, although I don't get the see completely what range he is 3-betting, this is kind of wide. Looking at my own stats, I have an average of 10%. Considering not many people are folding anything at low stakes and I have been playing a polarized 3-betting range, I must just admit this was kind of spewy and a bit fancy play syndrom.
I also think it has to do with me wanting to dominating the table, by the way.
I'm in. Seems like we have a fairly similar background. Best of luck!
Super! Where do you find yourself back in my story, if I may ask?
Just recorded a video for FreeNachos , hope I was first and will probably learn a lot from it. It was not an easy session!
Hi. I hope to see your video on RIO soon. I noticed there haven't been a lot of review videos recently where a pro reviews another member's play. They are some of my favourite type of videos though.
Poker is really good for me to shut of from work. I notice that I, when I play, don’t think about work or anything else. Which is good for me, obviously.
Today i felt a bit like a victim at the tables. A victim because everybody seems to fold when I have it and I need to fold every time with a strong pair because the river Donk shove is always a flush, or I just can’t find enough bluffs in his range in general for a raise on the turn or river.
I get worried then, that I will never exit this downswing especially since I am only able to play 20k hands a month (maybe 30). So this can last an entire year. In that moment, it’s also difficult to be sure about a play I make. I barreled of a stack in a 3 bet pot (see low stakes) which according to the forum was actually decent. And i thought so too. However he calls me with TT and I lost a stack. Then there is also just bad play of course. Bad play from not understanding a situation and making the wrong move.
Then I breath, I realize that losing 15 euro is really nothing for me and i continue.
It’s fascinating to me that losing a buy in means so much more mentally than losing 10’euro.
HodorIsKing I might! Looking forward to it. I am running at a -5 bb/100 at the moment. Suck out after suck out. So I could def get some help where I am making mistakes myself to turn it around :)
Yesterday’s evening session I was down 4 bi’s and won it all back. I also got the whole stack from the fish that constantly had the nuts. You know the type, 90/11 with 3 bi’s (not mine haha). In the end I lost 3,43 euro and adjusted win was 20 euro. Cool!
The hand I stacked him was interesting.
CO reg raises, fish in sb. I flat with QQ. The fish 3 bets. In 2 hours he never did that. CO flats, I flat too. Flop comes 8d9dQc. He bets 2 euro, close to pot. CO calls. I raise to 5,5. After thinking for 10 seconds(timer on) he jams over me. CO folds. He has AA and almost sucks out on the river but no. I really like how I played it pre flop.
I also added 4b% to hud. Some regs have 16% after 500 hands! Wtf??? I double checked if I selected the right stat but it’s really Preflop 4 bet.
Staying below a 20 VPIP seems almost like an impossible task for me.Getting to 19/18 is like asking me to do 100 pull ups without pause. Drilling down ranges those help and when I slip from my A game, I notice it by the hands I am playing. So it's both a positive and a negative. I just find many hands too beautiful too fold. The best I can do now is around a 21/20 vpip with a pfr of 18/19.
Where I might go wrong, for example, isolating a limper should probably be done with a better hand that you would normally open raise. Should I open raise Kh7h on the CO (keep in mind, I want to become more tight of a player)? Probably not. So, should I isolate a limper with Kh5h, probably not. But still. It looks so pretty. When I play my best, I might press fold. But when I am not competely at my best, I always rationalize myself into doing something too loose, and in some cases, too spewy. I might just do, for some time, fold whenever I feel like it's 50/50.
With 3-betting I notice I do the same. To get around a 6-7% 3-bet % .. I should 3-bet TT+, some suited broadways and some Axss. .. Still, if I see a 79% fold to 3-bet at a regular, I need to 3-bet him with Q5s, K5s.. anything that is suited, or low suited connector.. etc.. because he folds so often. One regular is actually adjusting to me and called me down on a Qxx K x board with 88. I stacked him a couple of times and I have 3-betted him really light.. and now is playing back. This is actually what I don't want because for me it's already really challenging to learn all the standard lines again without having to worry about players doing specific stuff against me.
Two cool things I also wanted to mention:
- I have elite membership for a month! Looking forward to learning from the best this month!
- I am going to be in a Runitonce video from FreeNachos , I have so many leaks to plug, so very curious where FreeNachos points me to my biggest leaks so this community can also learn from it!
learned 3 things:
- Bankroll management. I was too aggressive with 20 Bi's. It should be at least 30. And, after 3 bi's, move back. This makes sense. To rebuild takes time.
- Pick a range pre flop for the level you want to play at. 500nl? I am figuring out what this exactly means, but it seems to be that I need to figure out what VPIP/PFR I actually want to play or something
- It's actually possible to move up several levels in a year with consistency if I don't run absolute crap. But a year downswing seems a bit much, so if I am not moving up at least 2 levels this year (10nl > 20nl > 50nl) I probably have some pretty big leaks in my game.
About the second point the reason why you may wanna go this route is because your whole strategy should change in gtoland according to your range on the flop, so you will never really consolidate any learning if you keep changing ranges everytime in your sims.
I really think this is the way to go study wise, while playing you should consider all possible table dynamics and rake to adjust your range that way, and then playing postflop having that in mind.
There are some online ranges that may work for you and are free think odin and gtowiz have some for example, you can also buy some online or ran it yourself but think its way too expensive.
I don’t really see the point. Maybe i am old skool but if you play a 24/21 type of game you can construct those ranges yourself, right? Open poker stove and see what’s in there.
The same you can decide for yourself with 3 bet calling ranges and which hands you want to 3 bet yourself.
Maybe I am just not seeing what others mean with it.
What I sometimes find unfortunate is having a good session, where I am winning 100bb. Then, sometimes at the end of the session, I have a hand where I lose 40bb. And where I should lose 40bb. Still, the 40bb, I find it unfortunate that now I have a 60bb session. In my mind, I know this is being result oriented. I also know, It shouldn’t really matter. But I dislike it. Even worse is having KK in the final minutes of a session and losing versus AA or AK (or QQ and hitting a set).
Common "leak". It takes dedication to change. I sometimes get into that kind of thinking and sometimes is able to let go of those things. A lot of people like to ride the highs of winning but the consequence is you learn to pay attention to results and get the lows of losing too.
I set some intention or goal before each session to make me focus on process. Also, have some mantras to use to let go of trying to control results
Lot's of stuff you can do if you actually want to change but you gotta be willing to let go of caring about 5k hand sample heaters too...
*Kalupso chris pimmer has a good video around this
Yep and rationally it’s all one big session until the last hand you ever play Kalupso
Moving down a bit to 4nl. I have 27 bi's for 10nl. I want to keep a strict 30 bi bankroll for a level at a minimum and moving down if I hit 27. My ego is bruised :)
Moving down isn't as worse as I expected. Also good that I did, since I lost another 3 bi's, all pre flop hands with QQ, JJ and AKs. I am really proud I moved back while I was at 27 bi's for 10nl, now I have around 70 for 4nl.
Running bad is challenging. Especially knowing I ofcourse also make mistakes. So there comes lots of doubt in my game. But if I look at all my big hands lost, it's mostly all-in pre-flop or losing 50bb to a 50/16 fish who can also have the nuts sometimes. I get almost doubtful about any hand I bet. I also know, beforehand, everybody is going to fold when I finally have AA. Fish hit everywhere, and I am there wondering if the fish got good because man, they always seem to know when to check raise the turn and fold when I have something real.
With that, also some doubt come into play. The doubt is not being sure if I can ever play and study enough to make a move to the higher stakes (for me, that would now mean 100nl). I see all these GTO stuff coming by and I wonder if I am not just an dinosaur playing this game like its 10 years ago while it's not. I really don't have the time to even start learning all these GTO type stuff and that sometimes feels like saying: Yeah, I really like driving a car, but I really don't have the time to learn how to steer. GTO seems that important. But I have 1-2 hours at night to play and in the morning I watch a RunItOnce video. That's really all I can do with a busy career, 2 kids and also a wife that of course wants my attention. In september, I am also going to play tennis again so poker might even become a bit less.
That also brings some peace. Because while playing 4nl this evening, I still found it mentally challenging and thats what I enjoy. And I also realised, it doesn't really matter. As a business man, I know poker is never ever going to be my profession. I also know that I just can't spend many hours a day like some of the serious grinders in this game. Especially since I am not in my twenties anymore. I have a career. For that, my time has passed. So, what I need to figure out, can I, with the time I have, become a 100-200nl player? Because as a good recreational 100-200nl player I still would make some extra 100s a month. That would really not be that bad of a result for a hobbyist. I think 400nl+ is just a pipedream. Too much of a recreational player to ever get to that level.
Any thoughts are ofcourse appreciated!
Thank you for reading :-)
Sounds reasonable. In terms of GTO stuff. Just a little goes a long way. When studying the RIO video I'd have GTO base (free) open on the side and click through for some of the spots that comes up. Look a bit at the ranges and strategies. Just use it to add context to analysis in the video. Will help you make sense of both solver and training content and slowly build your ability to analyse your own hands.
Yeah that’s how old I feel.
Back in the days we would open pokerstove, we would check the range somebody raised with and then did a EV calculation on that situation.
Honestly, I tried some of these free GTO things and I am not even sure what I am looking at haha it’s very weird to experience that you just don’t get something.
Are there still winning players out there that don’t really do GTO?
The efficiency is just so high that you kind of shoot yourself in the foot to not learn to use it in any basic way. It's not about mimicking GTO or not either. More about just seeing a bit of the range and equities and what hands can do.
It really doesn't matter much with your goals, but it's not difficult to click buttons in these software at least.... Getting something out of it might be difficult but you don't really need that at first. Just looking a bit at range and clocking buttons is good enough at first.
I got an account on GTO base now. I think I made a really big thing of it in my head, "GTO". What I see now (first 5 minutes in it), is that you can see what type of hands for example gets raised UTG, and when a HJ raises, what type of hands are in that range. What you can also see, is a flop, and what sort of hands do what on that flop. This is of course very basis, and I can also understand that you can go veryyy deep in this rabit hole.
What I do miss is the turn and river. When I click it, it doesn't appear on the table.
Post a screenshot. You definitely get to see turn and river strategies if doing it correctly.
I think I figured out the turn selection. You need to take actions before you get to the turn. Just like in poker.
What I find interesting is that for some there is no "solution"?
And also, does it just show what often happens? So, people bet this, check with this, call with this? Or is it what "The GTO" would do?
It's not full 100% GTO but it's the equilibrium solution given game tree and solver algorithm. No human tampering or what makes sense logically or similar. You can say it's GTO approximation.
Maybe the no solution spots are either 3 players to the flop or after flop lines that never happens in the solver.
Pre flop, this GTO is tight!!
She sometimes folds off-suit broadways?
Yes, and correctly so. Could easily fix a leak if you call ATo and QJo. Gap concept. When calling outside BB you need to be ahead of some hands in the raisers range. Typically offsuited hands want to dominate some hands when calling. They make one pair hands and being dominated less and dominating more often is really important to it's EV. Low pairs and suited connected hands are more about the price and implied odds. Also, how often you get squeezed.
This you call "GTO" is already speeding up your learning process :D
In general, what you do here is how I like to study. Think about a spot and what you think is good or correct and then check solutions. Then you can start to question what you missed in your analysis and make corrections or learn something that explains it better. In the beginning this is difficult because you lack the fundamentals to do so. Why books like the new one from Janda is really helpful. They help build a framework for analysing spots.
Yo Kalupso
I am not sure. If I go to library >> 6 max cash (free) >> I get to choose between "view" and "post flop", if I then choose SRP, I really only get the below? Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way, but a SRP between BTN and CO must have been played at some point in time?
PC left column is preflop caller. PR row on top is preflop raiser. You should find PC BTN and PR CO, so lool for BTN on left and CO on top and find the intersection. There is something there ;)
I tend to just click through the preflop tree. Pretty sure there is a YouTube tutorial. I'll see if I can find it:
Newest update
Another
Not sure what best is but many GTO base vids on their YouTube. They have awesome support on their discord too.
I was looking at the opening ranges wrong, this is CO open according to my lady.
But then I check the BTN open................ What Am I doing wrong? :-) Isn't this an open raise what I am looking at maybe?
You have clicked on BTN raise which means you go to next node in game tree. After a BTN raise SB is next to act, so you are looking at SB linear 3bet range against BTN open.
I'd look at some of those YouTube videos
Yes, so what I understand, they don't have a UTG (pr) vs HJ (pc) scenario?
No, most people don't play call there as the hands that can call but would be too wide to 3bet are 0EV. No win rate in HJ calls. Just use EP vs BTN for that spot postflo. Closer to reality anyway. BTW a loose fish flat is somewhat close to BB call against SB open.
Yeah, thats what they mean with a linear 3-bet approach in HJ, CO, BTN and SB or fold. I think that's a bit too much at low stakes. But perhaps I need to re-evaluate that. I still think you can sometimes call with a hand like AQs or a strong pocket pair versus a regular if I don't reallty want to see a 4-bet.
It's even more important in high rake games like you've talked about. Also, people 4bet way too little so can just happily fold a lot if you face a 4bet. Can also just ship in AA because you get a lot of value when they don't have many of the 4bet then fold to 5bet hands.
What I am not sure about is losing value with those hands if we don't really want to see a 4-bet.
As an example, a 28/25 opens from MP. We have AQs on the BTN, we 3-bet and now he 4-bet shoves. With AQs, perhaps you can call here.
Now we have pocket nines. This might be a fold. Let's be certain and fold. If we called, we might have hit a set and go to town with it.
Also, with this linear form of betting, there are no real blufs in there anymore, otherwise you are just getting way out of line. So we have maybe a 7-8% 3-betting stat, but these are based only on valuehands. Not saying this is a bad thing. I think I have been polarizing my 3-betting range on a level that really isn't golding that often.
I am losing track of my thought here a bit because I find 3-betting / 4-betting such an interesting topic. To get back on track; I do see in a high rake game this might be the best approach and who am I to judge it, at the moment, I am not crushing 10nl or something :) And if most are doing this 4-bet or fold approach, it must be right on a lot of levels. The only one I am not sure about is losing value with some hands, that can't really stand a 4-bet. So if we 3-bet for value but can't stand a 4-bet, shouldn't we call?
Never call against a reg there. Those shoves are so heavily weighted towards AKo you are literally losing like 20bb or something making the call.
Against spewing rec is different though.
You are kind of creating problems in your mind that isn't there. I understand it's a comfort zone thing and it will feel difficult for a while, but you have to go through it to grow. Facing too much 4bet shove by AK and low pairs is bad for AQs exactly but you gain back that EV when you have QQ+.
Simple answer is no and it's not a real concern in most games you will play because people under 4bet like crazy.
Be careful with believing your feelings at this point of your development. At some point when you are more trained you want to start to listen more to them again, but for now it's best to work on doing things even if it feels wrong at first.
Let's say we create a value range with 3-betting and fold everything else.
So, Axs is in there, 99+, all suited broadways, some off-suite broadways. This is what I imagine it will be. If we only get it in with AK, QQ+, isn't that super exploitable?
This is very true.
Why you care if people 4bet half of what they should? This is like facing a river overbet by a nit that always have it when he bets big on the river.
Well, it has to do with comfort of course, and it also feels weird having too fold a good hand that was good enough to 3-bet. But the same can be said of course when facing a 3 bet. Some hands that where good enough to open aren't good enough to call a 3-bet with.
Nice reflection. We can literally see you evolve in this thread. You're pretty good at being 'real' and voicing your experiences. Don't underestimate that trait. It makes it quite easy for you to quickly learn lessons and grow.
Thanks man,
during my workday I have been playing around a bit in GTO and it's actually fun to do. It's a bit like playing poker. It's also a good way for me to have a better understanding about ranges, especially what does what or should do what. One thing I saw is that lots of hands become very marginal +EV when you make some crazy moves.
Just played my evening session. Stats: 24.07/23.33, 3-bet of 15%.
The 1% probably comes from the big blind where I instead of 3-betted, called sometimes. I think I understood from FTGU that you can call more from the big blind, but I don't want to make it to crazy.
3-betting purely for value is also a matter of keeping myself honest. A UTG opens (19/16) and I have A3cc on the BB. I sometimes then see myself making it 3x.. but this isn't for value. So I fold.
One sick hand I want to share because it's not often you hit a royal flush on the river. UTG is a fish, BB seems to be a regular reg. Pre flop, I 3-betted him with AQss. BB cold calls, UTG also calls. Flop comes, fish bets pot. I decided to only call. BB shoves all-in, UTG calls.. and I just need to make sure not to press fold as an accident. Time to move to GGpoker so I can claim a bad beat jack pot.
That turn made me go "of course", but than that river! .. Will this be the turnaround day for running bad? ... There is no running bad. There is only this one hand.
Kalupso thanks for GTO Base, didnt know it.
emsterdad keep going man. Im kind of in the same boat, with a career, family and stuff. We wont have that thousand hands by month, but we can grow at an steady rate, and maybe studying a bit more to compensate the less on the table learning.
So true man. I can play 1,5 hours a day. But i can study a bit more once i am in the living room reading a book or watching run it once on phone.
Also some data analyses can be done.
Reviewed 3 hands this morning. The 3 biggest losing hands from yesterday. Two I actually played according to GTO base. One I really butchered and I understand why.
I also opened the latest Janda book again. Kalupso thanks man, this is actually a very much fun way to learn, review and then play poker again.
Always remember sunk cost.
Keeping it short and simple here.
Things I am considering:
- Moving to 888 or PS when it get backs in Europe. Where I play now, there are 1000 people online total playing.
- Maybe move to GGpoker.
- Learning how to play without a HUD.
Hey. Maybe consider WPN skins. Black chip, ACR etc. GG rake is as bad as it gets. WPN allows you to play unregulated with normal rake in regulated countries.
thanks! I think my preferences goes to either PS or 888. I must say, 888 responded to a question I had very quickly. PS support.. was a bit slower, but also clearly didn't read my question (same e-mail used)
I've played on ACR myself but didn't really like it. My biggest issue is that you can only withdraw in crypto. I know how to use crypto, but it's useless for me in everyday life. It's also a hassle having to transfer crypto to an exchange, then converting the crypto into standard currency (Euro, dollars, etc). Also ACR is unregulated here in Europe so if the site ever goes bankrupt, you would lose all your money.
noob question but how can u play on acr or other site from europe if it s unregulated? I mean would the site be block when you try to access it? You guys using a VPN or how can you do it? thx
Yeah I think Ipoker is now the best option. After that it will be 888 or PS. Not sure which one i can trust most with my personal data.
Don't really mind showing that I am currently losing, because I know I can become better. But I do find it interesting how much I am losing in the blinds the last 50k hands. Most hands are actually my big pairs and big broadways and most of them all-in pre flop. But perhaps I should focus on becoming a lot less bad in SB and BB. Seems like if those positions werent there I would actually win :D The last video on-line about data analysis makes me realize I am also often way to spewy in certain spots.
33k hands since I started playing poker again. But can't play more than 1,5 hour a day.
Diving a bit deeper it's actually very clear where I should work on. I seem to be losing a lot when I call a 3-bet. Some might be variance but looking at CO and SB it’s also clearly a leak. I fight too much on these spots.
When I 4-bet I make money.
Also when I raise first in, I am doing fine.
So Sure, even with variance , I think I have a mental game issue where I get 3-bet I just feel like I need to do something about it. Def. something I should work on. Maybe it's a good reminder for myself that folding is zero EV?
Blind win rate is fine. It's your late position win rate that is bad in the sample. A good winning reg will have close to 30bb/100 on the BTN. Make sure to keep opening like 45% there even with rake.
Variance is huge for these things so don't read too much into it. Without variance you would have a win rate where you trade blows. You beat some players and some players beat you. However, the sample is too small to not be dominated by variance.
The reason call 3bet is so bad is became people 3bet way too tight. I
You will lose a lot if you call wide against tight and linear 3betting ranges. Solution is just to fold a lot unless you got a hand with good properties combined with a good price.
Yeah, I am at 24bb/100 i see now. I think this will get higher once I fixed the leak of calling 3-bets too wide. I think in EP/MP I have less of a problem folding. On CO and BTN I start to out level myself like some weird blinds vs Late war is going on.
About calling 3-bets. I think since this week I am calling with suited broadways and pairs to regulars who 3-bet with around 10%. I must admit, I also did this with people who 3-bet 5%. So.. I am just a bit too happy to invest money in hands in general :)
I played some 10nl again. Went well.
I won. But overall I also think I played well. No spewy bluffs, and keeping it as simple as possible.
I might have been calling a bit on BB and in late position, with a difference of 3 between VPIP and PFR (normally it's around 1-2 lately) and also my 3-bet has been 10% (normally i am between 10-15 so this is on the low side). However, I think I did have good reasons, like bad players on my left. I also did not "get tricky" with big pairs slow playing. I just thought in some situations calling would be better.
I did get in with AK of spades in a 3-bet pot where the opponent flopped a set of queens and decided to slow play it. This might have been a fold because he is never doing this as a bluff. Especially since I have the nut flush draw. He might jam JK of spades here, perhaps TJ of spades. But I think it's unlikely. Then again, I also thought I still would have outs and I did.
The rest where all 10-20-30 bb pots and I ended up 3 buy-ins plus.
Biggest lost pot was QQ with a regular. I was 200 bb deep with him. CO opens (bad player), I 3-bet him and regular cold 4-bets me. I didn't think it was smart to re-raise. I decided to call. On this flop, I decided he won't be doing this with a pair lower than mine, so I decided to fold the overpair. So set-mining in a 4-bet pot with QQ. Not sure if that is ever optimal. Might have been the worst played hand of the evening.
I would strongly advise against trying to gain any relevant data from session stats, the sample size is so small it's going to be pretty useless.
AK is a slam dunk call. Vs a range of 0 bluffs and AA-QQ only you have 36% equity.
Not 5betting QQ vs a cold 4bet 200BB deep is standard. XF flop is out of line though, you allow him to cbet every bluff (yes people will have bluffs here).
Thanks!
I will focus less on session stats. Perhaps just not at it at all.
Great I played the AK of spades solid.
With QQ, is it okay to "donk" bet in a 4-bet pot?
On 892 tt you can have some small donks but QQ is a call and losing a tonne of ev with a fold
So I upped my game a bit. Bought myself:
- Logitech MX Keys
- Logitech MX 3s
- Ergonamic chair
- a second screen.
Kidding, this is all for work, but it's also the place where I play poker at night :-)
I kind of like GTO Base because it brings something to studying that was not there in the past. The QQ versus my AK of spades hand.. It seems like I played it correctly. What I don't get is why the hand is Zero EV while 92% of the time it's played like this.
Good stuff bro. I would start avoiding black and white language if I were you e.g. "He is never bluffing", "They only have value". Changing the way ytou think about spots in terms of how a player profile, texture, bet sizing shifts frequencies towards being more overbluffed/underbluffed is a granular way of thinking that is more balanced and will serve you well.
Interesting. That will also probably lead me more to thinking about ranges?
Since a week back at 10nl and going well. Getting a better understanding with 3 betting thanks too runittwice but also just playing less spewy in general.
GTO base is nice to have as a learning tool. For example, I lost full house versus full house.
UTG opens, I am in HJ with JQs and I call. BB also calls, flop comes AQ2 rainbow. UTG bets, I call, BB folds. Turn in a Q. UTG bets, I call. River is a jack. UTG shoves. I call. He has AA making a full house with AA versus my QQQJJ.
I have been thinking about this hand and this morning had the chance to plug it in. Pre flop seems to be a mistake. We either fold or raise, and we only sometimes raise with QJs. I find this a bit nitty but I have been told before that we often play either raise or fold. Not fully in my game yet. So I choose the BTN because the BTN does call. Flop I played well, I thought it might be a fold but UTG c bets enough to call with second pair, good kicker. Turn I called, gto too. So very happy that I did this right. I think it has to do with having two pair on a board that could now easily have a better two pair and sets.
Gto never shoves. But UTG overbet shoves. Versus a all-in bet, with JQs it’s still a call. Probably because UTG might still have a lower set or QK.
Overall, i think a hand i could have avoided losing if I did the right thing pre flop. But post flop not much too do. Losing stacks starts pre flop
I would use simplified preflop ranges if you already aren't. A good rule of thumb is to never flat preflop from any position earlier than BTN. I would probably 3bet QJs at 2kNL where I'm paying very little rake, but at 10NL I would just fold this.
You can work on whatever you want, but the most immediate EV boost you can give yourself is to follow some reasonable preflop ranges so you don't end up doing things like cold calling in the CO.
Iranian96 and 3 betting linear? So i would assume versus most regs: AQo+, AJs+, QKs and then 99+?
I am 3 betting way too lose and calling way to wide.
Never be afraid to ask for help.
First of all, people are often very kind and give it
Second of all, you might sky rocket (because of a great tip, tool etc)
Thirth, the no that you get make you learn too
This is how it has been going for weeks. And it's rough. Biggest pot won with AA, KK, QQ was 10bb where they folded to my 4-bet, I lost an all-in with JJ where the guy calls my 3-bet, calls it off after a re raise on the flop with 89o on 8xxr .. gets the 9 on the river.
This hand sums up how it has been going:
AK pre flop. Raise on the flop versus the donk 1bb.
Not to whine .. but man, this is just rough. those 3 outers that people seem to keep hitting. The 3-bets with real strong value hands getting crushed or just getting nowhere (AK and flopping nothing.. and getting action on the flop).
Just needed to release a bit. Time to watch a TV show. Back to work tomorrow with way less variance.
Industry on HBO max is pretty good. It’s not succession. But decent so far.
After chilling and meditating a bit I am back to normal again. Expectations are often a dangerous path. And I expected a different beginning of starting poker again.
I expected that I needed to relearn some things but I didn’t expect to enter in a downswing where non of my big hands hold up.
In the end. It’s okay. It’s good even. Tomorrow is another day. Pre flop, I finally have the ground to build a strong foundation. And I also really believe last two sessions I played well.
I also believe that if I can run this bad I can also run this good. So there will come a time where overpairs win, where I have AA and they win versus Kk and Qq, where AK sometimes hit the flop and the other person has Aj or AQ, where draws with 200 ours get there after betting twice, where I hit sets, and sometimes hit the FH versus the flush, or quads versus somebody’s top FH.
And in the end, it’s just a game.
First of all, thank you for the likes I am getting on this thread. I appreciate it. Feel freel to chime in, ask questions, discuss stuff.
On a more personal level. Today we celebrated our youngest. He already became 2. Our oldest is 4. It's an amazing experiencing to see them grow up. It's also insane how fast the time goes. It doesn't amazes me anymore when a girl tells me "sir" (5-8 year ago I was shocked) and I am very happy that I can experience 2 beautiful children in this short timespan we have on this planet. As an introvert, these family gatherings always take some energy, but as you get older you realize it's good. And, as a father you have to realize at some point: Nothing is about me any longer lol
In business, H1 is already finished. Always so crazy to realize half a year is already gone. I am well on target and this will be an awesome year.
About poker.
After some all-ins pre flop again and losing with big pairs and big broadways I decided to move back again to 4nl. I have 22 bi's for 10nl and 55 for 4nl. Emotionally, I notice that with a bigger roll I play a lot more comfortable. In real life, the 22 bi's doesn't mean that much to me (lol the birthday of our kid today we celebrated in a kids playground and the damage was 400 euro). But I have decided that I won't deposit any more than i initially did. And losing stacks here and there with 30 euro swings.. that is actually a bit of an impact on my bankroll. With the 55 I no longer have that worry and I can really focus on the strategy. I think for a small 3-4% of the time at 10nl in the background of my mind the thought is sometimes alive that losing this stack means something to my roll... This is suboptimal mentally.
On the other hand, I also don't really want to grind at 4nl until I get to 55 bi's for 10nl. So I need to find a middleground for myself. What feels right is shot taking at 25 bi's for 10nl and moving back to 4nl when I hit 22 bi's for 10nl. Never getting below that. I will stay extremely overrolled for 4nl and I give myself a change to stick at 10nl.
I don't want to check my results all the time to keep an eye on it, but as soon as I have a big enough roll to stick with 10nl and I can focus more on not focusing on the results as much any longer. For now, I do need to keep an eye on it.
Hi emsterdad. I have seen videos from Pete Clarke where he advises playing the highest stake you can afford to play due to the rake. At 25NL for example, the rake cap on pokerstars is 8bb. At 10NL it is 15bb. At 5NL it's 20bb. Would be interested to know your thoughts on this.
I will not argue with Pete when it comes to poker, he is miles ahead of me. And the rake does bite into the winrate. I think he misses one variable: “playing the highest stake you can afford to play due to the rake and are willing to invest.
Let’s say the rake gets normal after 100nl. I could deposit for 100nl, but i don’t have the 100nl skill level and I also don’t want to invest 3000 euro + rio subscription into something that is a hobby for me :)
When I decided to start playing again I said to myself that 300 euro would be my bankroll investment. So that’s where I am going to do it with.I just need to become a 10bb winner to have a 3 bb/100 because of the rake haha ;) (I am kidding because I have no idea about the math around that. I do think that it’s true what some say: “yeah the rake is high but not THAT high.”. If one of the high stakes pros went to microstakes I am pretty sure they would be back at mid stakes in 6 months playing their normal range :)
At the moment, poker feels more frustrated than an old dude playing Fifa 22. They ruined that game. Completely.
I 3-bet AA and get cold called by somebody on the BTN. I lose the pot for 3 streets of value (around 60-70bb) versus 66 (flopped set on flop). A-game mentally: Exactly how it should be. Players keep playing this game because they get rewarded. Sometimes by mistakes, often by mistakes, they are not aware of.
But after being down a couple of buy-ins and not have had a winning session for days and a downwards graph for an entire month, well.. let's just say I am a calm minded individual overall, but I do find this frustrating.
The fish also have it on me. I constantly seem to run in the top of their range or don't have the hand to really do anything about it. I lost around 60bb to a 92/17 over the entire session because I did get those premium suited broadways, but wasn't able to flop anything and I would get massive action back with no hand, because, well, it's a 92/17. So only with 3-betting there I lost around 40-50bb. Also here I understand that it was still +EV to do so. The big picture is always hard to really look at in the storm of things.
I also know that when somebody would review my hands they would find mistakes and also big ones. Obviously.
For me, this game becomes more of a mental challenge because I believe in staying present, staying logical, staying focused and make good decisions. I do this in business. And I work hard to do this still in game. You don't see me all of a sudden make loose pre flop decisions, or call of people, or make crazy plays. I am happy to see how disciplined i stay pre flop.
How I am running over 40k hands
I know I am a low stakes player so not great. But I am not that bad. Even playing bad in some situations, I do think I can say I am really on a downswing.
I would definitely recommend playing at least 25NL if you can afford to deposit that much.
I honestly think you should stay away from solvers until you reach 500nl. Nobody at low stakes is playing anything close to GTO for you to be using those ranges. and given how wide you would be playing vs their 3b/4b ranges, its just bleeding money postflop, and with rake implications.
I would recommend you looking for some old alan jackson videos on youtube, or other torrent platforms. He was really good at exploitation and understood the meta for big pools. I think spending 10-20 hours on his materials would net a higher expectation than you dabbling with random GTO solutions.
just my .02 and hope you get out of the downswing
So how do you analyze hands?
I mean i play different stakes than you do. Im currently grinding 500nl across few sites. My approach to study might not apply to you. At 500nl+, there's more of a grounded reg player pool base, with 1 to 2 recreationals hopping in. At this stage of my career, I'm actually studying more of my reg opponents than GTO strats, and im running node locks vs their strategy, since i play with them day in and day out, while having an overall exploit strategy vs generic fishes based on their HUD stats.
I just want to chime in and say that it's possible, I went from a 500$ deposit and 25nl 2 years ago to now being in a middle of a shot at 1k while having a full time day job (that I can't wait to quit once I establish myself at 1k).
My advice would be to focus on fundamentals, study - but always keep an open mind and look for ways to exploit and keep going. GL !
Nice job! How much time have you spent on poker to achieve that?
When you say "focus on fundamentals": What were the resources that you used and would recommend?
emsterdad Pretty much every free moment of the last 2 years, weekends I grind and during the week I get up early before work either to study or for a short session, I do make sure however that I have at least 2 study sessions a week and that I always review marked hands from my sessions.
Aquila By fundamentals I mean the properties of the spot, ie pot odds, ranges, equities etc ofcourse each of these is a world of it's own but the idea imo is to take one thing each time, break it down and focus on it's sub-particle and then move on to the next, with the idea of being mindful how these affect your and your opponnent's ranges and strategy/ies and how EV flows in a spot.
That is obv very hard to do and I mess up a fuckton but as long as there's improvement then all good. Also I am a huge believer in simplifying your process rather than trying to do a shitton of things all at once. Focus on one thing at a time, and build on that.
As far as resources go, I pretty much consume everything (even during my day job I consume lighter stuff like podcasts/interviews etc) but I'd say def invest in coaching whenever you can, perhaps with someone you can get a few sessions with so there's some kind of process, even if it's a session once every few weeks because your can't afford more etc.
And when you do watch training videos etc try to do it actively, ie ask yourself questions during it, and try to be mindful of the takeaways you are aiming for/receiving.
Eventually, every 0.01bb/100 you gain, adds up.
Back from our vacation in nature. The kids had a wonderful time playing and mom and dad had plenty of time to relax. I took a 24
inch screen, laptop, mouse, keyboard with me but after a couple of days playing I just decided to take a break. On vacation I want my brain activity as low as possible and poker was not helping with that. I ended up watching a ton of Chris Pimmer.
Now I am back all my social media is deleted from phone. I don’t have Facebook or instagram but I do enjoy YouTube a lot. I only allow social media in holiday breaks.
Coming home I saw the video Steve did about my play was live. For the comments I made there, see the video section. This is a paid side of runitonce so I don’t want to give away free information other people pay for.
Next for me is figuring out how poker is going to fit in my schedule. Picked up a new sport, tennis, so will have one night of tennis. I also weight lift twice a week but that can be done in the morning. I also decided to pick up my golf game for mental game purposes (I find the driving range relaxing) and i will do that during my lunch break since the range is a 5 minute drive. I work between 40-50 hours a week and also family is something I want and need to spend time on. Besides all this, I am doing an education in psychology which is like a master since I already have a bachelor in it (finished 15 years ago. I work in a different field but human nature has always been a major interest for me).
So I think I just need to focus more on quality in poker, a couple of nights a week where I really focus on playing well and forget about moving up for now. That will happen anyway if I play well enough, long enough.
Wow. 6 days already since I last posted. Having been working and working out a lot. Daily I go now to the driving range. I also ride my bike 30-60 minutes and weight lifting. Tennis will probably start soon. Work wise, best year ever.
Poker, played one session and I think it was a losing one. I think. I don’t check it anymore expect for when I notice it in my balance. I focus on a couple of hours of quality poker where I really think about my decisions. The need “to move up” is gone. I do still believe I can make it to 50-100nl but with the hours put in it’s probably going to take longer. Which is fine, poker will never be a source of income for me. I view it in that regard as chess, tennis, golf.. a hobby. A hobby i don’t lose money with and where I might some day buy a cool breitling from.
Nice update, sounds like you're working on resolving your urgency, keep it up.
Time flies. 13 days is the last time I wrote here and I have been playing a couple of times in these weeks. `
I just saw the video of Freenachos which was recorded 2 months ago and it's cool to see how i already got better. I am using fixed ranges pre flop and that is working like a charm for me. For me, this means no calling range in MP/CO. No calling range in SB. And a whole different strategy around 3-betting and 4-betting. Also what I open from what position is clear. I could have never figured that out on my own (what hand ranges versus what). So I think I took a lot of time from my learning curve there without cutting corners. Another thing I implemented like a month ago is always bet small when c-betting. I just don't have the time to be as serious to construct strategies post flop that would work for me, so for now, to keep it simple, a small c-bet on every flop works well (when I dont check, that is haha). It's interesting that I don't think it affects much how many folds I get and I am still able to build the pot because versus regulars, it's often cooler versus cooler that makes the pot big. I have a set, guy has a higher set, or the other way around. It seems like you just flip around who coolers who and the last couple of months I am a bit more coolerd that I coolerd the regular. With fish, it doesnt matter, I can overbet, min raise back.
Watching both Steves video and Freenachos, I think my overall conclusion is that I just need to think more. Take my time a bit when a decision needs to be made. Another conclusion that I made is that I just need to see myself as a complete beginner again. Sure, I played 100nl 12 years ago, but in those 12 years a lot has happend and i really have not been doing anything with poker in those 12 years. I think 6 years ago I played a bit on RunitOnce but came to the conclusion that it just didn't fit with the time.
Last week I actually had the same feeling again. My wife asked me if I was going to play poker tonight. I told her that I find it difficult that I just can't put in the time that's needed to become great. The overall conclusion of this conversation was that I can play poker simply because I enjoy it, there is no need to grind every day every night and I can simply view it as a hobby. Somewhere, this also feels like a cop out, but considering my important life goals it just makes sense. So a couple of hours of poker and learning from some videos every month is something I am experimenting with.
Holiday is over. It's back to work, sport, social, children back to school, children back to their sports and poker needs to fit in all that as a hobby. It's all about sacrifice (and what is most important and why). When I look back 12 years ago I remember how I ended poker. It was because I realized I was not able to become a pro in it and earn a living with it because of skill but also because I felt it was not the right career for me. In the end, it's all about taking other peoples money and that just felt a bit shallow at the time. I also didnt see myself grinding behind a screen for many hours a day at my 40s, and def. not at my 50s+. In some way, getting into stocks would have been an interesting direction but I am just terrible at math lol For many poker players who are decent or great at math, it might be a great transition fro professional poker player to becoming an investor. Especially if you have around 100-200k in your backaccount making that transition slowly but steady.. interesting! .. but I am getting sidetracked here..
This year I started poker again to treat it as a hobby, but before I knew it I stepped into the mistake to take it a bit too serious and spending too much time on it considering where it fits in my overal life goals. I am glad I think I now found the right place for it, where I might not be the most active regular at microstakes, but when I play, I play good and fearless (a goal. Not reality now). I think about the game instead of just clicking buttons. And maybe in a year from now, I am playing 20nl or 50nl depending on how good I get and how good I run. I need to leave my ego at the door and also realize even at lower stakes, some of the regulars will be better than me because they are a lot younger and are able to spend a lot more time on this game. And some of them might just have a better feel for the game. Some of them might also see themselves playing poker professionally and see it as their dream to become a highstakes roller. I think thats awesome and I will do my absolute best you will not succeed in that with my money. Some of them will be the Freenachos of the future. I see myself in the future as the pretty decent recreational player who is not splashing money but just views it as chess. An intellectual game where psychology is also a big part of the game.
Both videos of both coaches learned me where I can get better and I will just take my take to make that happen. I think my balance of playing versus learning will also change, where it will be more learning than playing. I am curious what that will do to my game as well.
Feel free to hit me up any time if you want to talk some poker :) Will be following!
Good weekend, had a wedding and played some 20nl for the first time. Went pretty well, I believe I won a buy-in but overall, made some good decisions where I did not ran into the nuts but also where I coolerd the other regular. One skill I still have not developed is to ever hit my massive draw when I hit something like QK of diamonds on a TdJdx flop. I am just incapable of hitting any of the 90% of cards that is left in the deck lol. SO I think that was my biggest pot lost. Mindset wise, I still can get stronger. I notice myself saying "here comes AA again" when I had KK and a regular raised pre flop (and I 3-betted him). He folded. No need to be cynical about such a hand once you have it, however, I have not seen many QQ-JJ going all in pre flop and AK often just calls. But even that can be just biased thinking.
Alright, shorter update than normally. Have a nice workweek!
Hope you're doing well bro. The neuroticism in the KK hand is a very strong sign that you need to seriously check yourself, and I say that in a lovng way. This type of thought process is not common at high stakes.
Here's what I'm thinking when I have KK in this spot: "Ok, CO opened, I have KK in the SB, this hand is a 3bet. I know already that if he 4bets, I will 5bet shove, and if he calls, I will evaluate based on flop texture". I'm not wasting a single ounce of my mental bandwidth of an emotional thought like "This guy always has it", "Oh great, can't wait to run into AA..."
Where do you think this stems from?
Excellent assessment Iranian96 and great advice! I hope emsterdad sees it...hasn't made a post since RunItTw1ce nuked him in MatoStar's thread a month ago.
Hey man!
haha yeah, reading it back after all these months, I seen I have grown. But I will write an update in a couple of minutes! This might get included.
ElSquancho is RunitTwice still at it? We had some discussion months ago during summer on Discord. I actually have not seen how I got nuked.
6 months ago I came back to on-line poker after almost 15 years of not playing at all. I just had a moment where I really missed it all. I got a bit nostalgic, I think that's the best word to describe it.
Back then, I played between 50 and 100nl. I had some on-line poker friends where I discussed other stuff with than poker. Then black friday happened and all of a sudden poker was gone from my life.
It was a weird come back. Looking at my first 6 months, it feels like I played poker in a time where it was version 2.0 and 2022 is more like version 5.0. A lot of things seems to have changed, not even just how poker is being played but also just the whole community around it.
I think I started of right, but then I got a bit obsessive about on-line poker again, which wasn't the plan. My goal was to just play regularly, become serious with it but really as a 3th/4th place hobby. I must admit I failed in that area. Looking back, I was browsing the forums and sometimes even watching poker videos during work lol My work is really something I am very passionate about so this was not working well for me. During holiday I watched a lot of mindset videos on RunItonce, especially from Chris Pimmer. Then, some really big projects on work took over, fortunately, and I am back to just playing low stakes / microstakes a couples of hours a week with some new gained knowledge.
In this thread I heard I got nuked by RunitTwice. I looked back and it seems to him that I'm the throll. Just to clarify: I am a throll, according to him, because he believes I live in my parents basement, I have no children, I don't have a diploma in psychology and I have been lying about many things. In our conversations this became the looping story and at some point I deleted my discord. I am def. no saint. I did try to push some buttons with him which I shouldn't have.
So the only reason I have not been much on RunItOnce is because I didnt have the time. I dont have any subscription running at the moment although I did bought Carrots course some time ago. And I have been playing with all the knowledge gained from the videos I was in, but didn't really feel like writing about it.
Life is good. I do notice in poker that I get easily swept away emotionally when things go too bad for too long and that's just because I hate losing that badly. But as I get older, it does get better. I like how one of the top coaches said: "Poker is just a math problem." So if you are not acting rational any longer, just move away from the tables.
" So if you are not acting rational any longer, just move away from the tables
Or learn to deal with it in another way.
Liked your older posts, hope to see more of that. Take care
Maybe should have been “if you no longer act rational [and can’t get yourself back to that state], move away from the tables.” Thanks for the feedback and have a great day :)
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