Don't know if I'm good enough to carry on playing professionally. Should I quit?
Posted by Snowy95
Posted by
Snowy95
posted in
Gen. Poker
Don't know if I'm good enough to carry on playing professionally. Should I quit?
Hello everyone,
I'm 23 years old, I live in London and today celebrates five years of me playing poker full time.
I have logged every single session I've played, here are my stats;
NLH
£1/£2 - 5.1bb/hr 5,160 hours
£1/£3 - 4.2bb/hr 1,655 hours
£2/£5 - 2.9bb/hr 2,182 hours
I love the game and I'm happy that I can profit from my passion. The last five years have been fun, and I would like to play for another five years. I don't want to quit, but I'm worried about being one of those burnouts that are still stuck in the low stakes years on.
From what I read on forums and what other regs tell me, I have come to the realisation that my bb/hr is very low. The winrate most claim is anywhere between 8bb/hr and 10bb/hr, and I believe them. Do you?
I will admit that the only studying I do is going over hand histories with my buddies, and reading the odd poker book or article here and there. I've never attempted to study further than that, as stupid as it sounds I don't know where to start. Do you recommend me paying a monthly membership and watching the videos on here? How do you study?
I'd really appreciate any advice, and please be brutally honest.
Would you quit if you were in my position?
Is my bb/hr a problem?
Do you think I have potential?
To give you an idea of my lifestyle- I live at home with my parents, so my expenses only go towards going out with friends, food and holidays. I have saved most of what I've made over the last five years.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read all of this and giving me your 2 cents :)
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Yeah, it seems like you wouldn't be able to beat 50nl online from that live winrate. The quit or not answer is all about how much time and energy you are willing to invest and how far do you want to go. Do you just want to make enough to live a moderate life? Do you want to be the best? Do you want to dedicate thousands of hours into studying poker? Those are few of the many things you need to consider.
Hi Saulo, thanks for taking the time and giving me some advice. I don't think I could even beat 10nl online let alone 50nl haha :). I'm only interested in playing live.
I'm all for studying, I just don't know where to start. How do you study?
Why aren't you interested in playing online? England is a great place to play online poker, afaik there are no restrictions.
Hi Quido,
Simply because I enjoy the social side of poker. I prefer being in a casino, eating good food and meeting new people. Beats being sat in front of computer screen :)
One plus side with online though, you can play in your underpants haha
Good luck on and off the tables!
In order to improve fast(er), I would say that you should definitely play and study online poker training material.
You have played something like 5 hours per day for the last 5 years which is a pretty decent volume. Why not dedicate 10-20% of that time for online training material and grinding like NL10 or whatever, just to get a large amount of hands in and get that experience. I'd do that, you have a really nice foundational routine and adding some online magic into the mix might do wonders.
Hi Samu,
I do regret not studying during those five years, it definitely correlates with my winrate.
What software do you recommend me downloading/purchasing for online play? I'll be starting online fresh, so I want to do it right. I'm sure I'll need a HUD and all that good stuff.
Thankyou for taking the time and giving me some sound advice :)
Good luck on and off the tables!
piosolver (basic is enough) + pokerranger
edit: and of course a database program, there are several options but most of us use holdem manager
Thankyou so much Quido. I really appreciate the help :)
I wouldn't quit in your situation.
You're 23 years old and since you saved most of your earnings you have presumably more than £50,000 to your name? Not a lot of 23 year olds are able to say that, so congratulations and well done!
Have you experimented with playing above £2/£5? Are you able to find higher games where you live?
Try out an essential membership. There have been some good Live poker videos at the essential level recently, and may help you out.
If I were you I wouldn't even bother with playing online, and just continue on with Live poker.
Hi JDG, thankyou for the kind words and vote of confidence.
I have over £50k and I do feel fortunate, but having had no rent to pay over the last 5 years has helped my net worth alot haha :).
I've never played above £2/£5 because the games rarely run here in London, but I do plan to jump on £5/£10 when I next see one to test the waters as I have the bankroll for it.
I'm going to sign up for the essential membership now.
Yeah, I have no interest playing online. Totally different beast to live poker.
Thanks again for the advice. Good luck on and off the tables!
Invest in pio solver/flopzilla. Write down the hands live that you want to look at. Reviewing HH is just getting other people's opinions, not the answer. GL
Hi LZ11, thanks for taking to time to read my post and message me.
I agree. Reviewing hand histories with other players isn't enough. Will download both of them.
Thanks for the advice. Good luck on and off the tables!
Hi Snowy, it's good to see you've kept accurate statistics and you're trying to be honest with yourself.
It looks like your best win rate across stakes is less than 15 pounds per hour. Assuming you have a university degree (and probably even if you don't), a different career would probably be more lucrative. Just because you have a job that's not poker doesn't mean you can't continue to play poker and get better at it.
Hi Quietly,
Thankyou for the advice, I really appreciate it.
I feel like I'm stuck at a crossroad, and like most people my age being indecisive is a common trait :)
You're right, so many people have careers and are still able to play poker and improve.
Guess I just gotta figure out.
Thanks again, good luck on and off the tables!
Start watching vids here and play zoom micro stakes on PS for a couple hours per day. You will improve extremely quickly putting in large volume, crushing live donks will be laughably easy in comparison.
Hi Tcallas,
Thanks for the advice.
Many people have told me playing online is a great way to improve, I think I'll give it a go.
Good luck on and off the tables!
Grunch (Do people still use that? I might be dating myself...) Anyways... I'd say that you really need to decide if you want to commit yourself to getting really good and making this a career or if you want to go do something else. I think that your worst choice is continuing to play at a mediocre level and not really making much money while also not doing something where there's a ton of room for growth.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing poker recreationally and making some money on the side while you work a 9-5 type job but if you want to play professionally you need to take it more seriously and put your hours in doing studying away from the table as well as grinding hours on the table.
If you can't get yourself to put the work in then maybe you just don't really want to do this for a living.
Hi James,
I'm really chuffed that you've replied to my post getting advice from someone as knowledgeable as you is awesome. I'm signing up for the essential plan so I really look forward to watching your videos.
I'm going to continue playing full time and I will study my ass off from this here on out!
Good luck on and off the tables!
This is my first post here on RIO and I'm so taken back with how friendly the community is. I didn't think anyone would take the time to reply to my post, let alone a pro.
ps. I had to urban dictionary the word Grunch. I don't blame you, there's alot to read haha :)
You can have a like solely for using the word chuffed. It might be my favorite word in the English language...
Hey Snowy! You came to the right place to ask this question, and I'm glad to see that others have already given such helpful responses.
I can't speak to the games you play in or your natural abilities, but from what I know about live poker here in Vegas, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't at least double those winrates with some hard work.
Essential videos should open your eyes to some new and valuable concepts if you haven't watched advanced poker training videos before. Since you have so much experience in a live setting, leverage the knowledge that comes with it: Pay particular attention to things that RIO pros do that differ greatly from what your typical casino opponents do. Those differences, which will usually be leaks in your opponents' games, are the areas you need to figure out how to exploit in order to boost your winrate.
As a simple example, if you watch a video and say "whoa, these guys are check-raising the flop with a lot of bluffs my opponents would never make," then your opponents aren't check-raise bluffing the flop nearly enough and you need to make some big folds when they do.
Next, please post hands you've played in the strategy forums here! Give basic details about your opponents and about why you made the plays you did. Insight into what you're thinking will help advanced players find out what leaks you might have, and they will help beginning players improve their own games. Not every response in the forums will be from an expert, but that's the point - we're all here to learn together.
I agree that some online play will help your game, as will online tools, but my strong advice here is to take it slow. Don't download/purchase 3 pieces of software off the bat. PIO is a great tool, but it can be intimidating. I wouldn't start there until you've watched several videos of people using PIO so that you can get familiar with how it works and be honest with yourself about whether it's something you will put time into or not.
In fact, other than starting a free trial of database software to track your online play, I'd recommend not getting any software that you haven't seen used in a video or two first. You know better than anyone else what you understand and will be likely to use.
As someone who personally doesn't do much work with poker software because I find it tedious, I don't want you to overwhelm yourself at the start and quickly say, "ah, I'm not cut out for this online advanced stuff," and quit trying.
I don't know about your other opportunities, so I don't want to push you far down one path or the other, but given that you really enjoy live poker (I wish I did!) and have been playing and winning for a long time, I think it would be a shame if you didn't give it your best effort for at least 6-12 months and see if you can start earning more before deciding to leave the game behind.
Good luck, and please keep us updated on your journey!
Hi Phil,
I'm a huge fan and I really appreciate everything you do for poker. Thankyou so much for taking the time to message me and giving me such great advice.
I just signed up for the essential plan, and I'm really looking forward to improve my game with all the good people here at Run It Once.
Good luck and good health to you.
Thankyou Phil :)
Play some online, get a good coach to review your database and give you some sessions on basic topics based on topics and give you homework what you should focus on. I coached some people who lived live in the past like this and I believe it is by far most effective.
Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for stopping by and giving me some advice.
I've been watching the videos here on RIO for the last three weeks now and the way I think about the game has completely changed. Without a doubt the best $25 investment any lower stake grinder can make.
Good luck on and off the tables!
Hi Snowy95,
Great to hear about your progress. I've been a live game guy myself & can relate to your self examination.
Which videos specifically have helped you so far? How has the way you think about the game changed?
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