To a certain degree, any site you play on is going to require some level of trust, whether that be in the site itself of the regulators. There are countless examples of different products or entities that are heavily regulated but still managed to commit fraud. Enron, Bernie Madoff, Volkswagon are just a few that come to mind of large-scale frauds conducted in heavily regulated environments.

I think if you find yourself unable to shake the pervasive thought that there are bots or other nefarious forces at play on the site that you're playing on that it could be detrimental to your game even if they're not actually there. It could become easy to attribute losing sessions to these forces that you'll likely never be able to confirm instead of what you did wrong or how you can improve your game.

I can't make any claims about ignition or bovada and their adherence to game integrity but I've generally found it to be a good site to play on and I'm not too concerned about those issues you mentioned.

Yeah it is hard to say which direction ignition will take post the sale. I am ok with Bovada and I think ignition had an ok reputation. I dont understand why the new owner of ignition Poker would not just retain the KGC permit or apply for a new one? Perhaps the KGC were not going to approve a permit to the new owner.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

SetMineUrAss - What do we have to be concerned about in 2018?

I would be willing to bet that ignition poker is rigged. I have a 7bb/100 win rate but with how soft the site is i believe it shoild be much higher. Sadly there is no where else to play. I would be willing to bet money this site is rigged tho

I am willing to bet that it is. In every major category of big hand i win less as a percentage then i do at americas card room . 77-AA and AT-AK. Every single hand, its crazy. Keep track when some one flops a set the other always hits top pair or better

I do not beleive its rigged against me. I beleive its rigged in general. You guys are all brainwashed to not question the sites. They currently have no license. I would be willing bet its rigged. And i do review my hands. Keep track of how often someone flops a set and the other player hits top pair or better. Happens a ton.

Because i think its rigged does not mean you cant win. I win......i am saying if it was not rigged these players would win more

I play all different stakes.

So if the site is not rigged explain why the win rates arw smaller. Like 7bb is crushing. If u made 7 bb per 100 live i would be better off working for walmart. But online its awesome . How do u figure ?

I never understood the "what stakes do u play question" i am limited to only 1 stake? I play many stakes and hold on to yourselves........i actually play more then 1 poker variant.....i know, i know....hard to believe but its true

I dont mind id they question me. I play different stakes and different poker games.

In the name of fairness, I do want to point out two things that are indeed concerning:

1) The lack of license. Not so much the lack of but the lack of any initiative by Ignition to obtain a new one. That's what's concerning.

2) They're clearly either complicent in or don't care about botting. I just played a two hour session at 25NL and I do indeed see why people consider it such a problem today: It is. This is by no means unique to Ignition, though. Not the presence of bots nor the lack of effort to remove them.

What stake do u assume most of the bots would be at? Do u think the higher yoi play the less bots you would find or would it be opposite in uoir opinion

The thing is i do ok playing online. I am a fish live most time because its just so slow i get bored. Playing online will not help my live game at all. I just dont believe some aites deal cards aa randomly as they claim, add to that the bots and its discouraging

Never have more money sitting on these sites than you are prepared to see disappear into thin air

I'm absolutely going to share a recent experience here because I've tried to reach out to the 2p2 moderation about this and they've just totally ignored me. As you know, I have a YouTube channel that promotes the game and the DriveHUD project. Here on RIO, in my email inbox, and via text message from people I know in person who I've directed to these US facing sites - I've received repeated questions about Ignition's lack of a gaming license. So, I began asking questions about it on the 2p2 forums. I was met with immediate hostility (overt) in the Ignition thread by guys who have been on the site for years. One of them even admitted openly to trolling me and when I let it go and told him to have a good night, I was then immediately banned by "Bobo Fett", a moderator on the 2p2 forums. Banned. My account had hundreds of posts, was an advertiser and promoter for one of 2p2's own affiliates, and had absolutely zero infraction points, warnings, or previous violations.

Since this happened, I have sent emails to the 2p2 moderation team, the forum administrators, and the moderator who banned me himself. I have heard absolutely nothing back from them.

Three years ago, I had an account banned by this same moderator when I was questioning the integrity of WPN. As you also know, WPN recently removed itself from 2p2 entirely when it was pressed on the issues of botting, house players, collusion, super users, and RNG rigging. So, when I thought something was awry with a network 3 years ago and was banned for questioning it: It turned out I was right and obviously never should have been banned. Here we are in 2018 with me even further involved in the game and actually working for a software developer in it and I'm banned for asking a question about something that even the moderator who banned me previously agreed was a legitimate question (Ignition's lack of a license). An inquiry that I was making because so many people asked me about it as they were naturally concerned. On 2p2, they acted like I was some outrageous troll for inquiring about the lack of a gaming license for Ignition and then banned.

This is what happened, folks. Of course, the dialogue and exchange on the Ignition thread, where other posters openly admitted to trolling me, was removed. You can certainly see my original question in that thread though and "Bobo Fett"'s rationale behind banning me. He said I was "looking for an argument and I got one. Buh-Bye" and instantly banned an account with zero infraction points or warnings. Make of this what you will but I thought it was wise to write about this here at this point, especially since I was specifically acknowledged for my posting quality by RIO in the month of May.

The moderator who banned me, "Bobo Fett" has engaged in over 4 hours of dialogue with me through email now and still not unbanned the account although he's given every indication that he's going to do so. He keeps asking "why ask about the license if you weren't looking to stir up trouble?". Obviously, we know why I asked about the license and we know that it's a totally legit concern. Even if I was just looking to "stir up trouble": It's an account with 400+ posts who works for one of their affiliates and has zero infraction points. Insta ban? Yup. And it's still the case, and the mod's actually defending it. I have the emails to prove it if need be.

THIS is the reason that the US market is dying. You're treated this way by online communities, you're treated this way by the poker sites, and you're asked to jump through massive hoops every time you try to access your own money. Oh and...the site's you play on don't even have a gaming license. You just have to "trust them". One would think a site like 2p2 would look out for the community in a case like this but clearly, they're concerned about protecting the site.

Why? What's 2p2's relationship with Ignition? What about the other US facing sites? Does 2p2 have some sort of relationship with them, too?

Same moderator continues to email me and play a game with me saying "well, I'm not entirely against the idea of unbanning your account". Guys - This is after page, after page, after page of dialogue back and forth tonight. He's STILL dragging me through the mud and playing games with me. I informed him (and this is true) that I have information and contacts in my inbox there that I need to access and that he's literally costing me time and money tonight. His response after two hours? "Oh, sorry - I was out tree trimming and can't believe you expected me to resolve this quickly", insisting that moderation is a volunteer position (as if we didn't know) and that he's not going to cut out time with his family to deal with a forum issue. I've repeatedly told the guy that because it's costing me time and money it's now become a personal problem. He's stood about as fast and stubborn as any human being I've ever encountered.

I've promoted US sites, promoted 2p2 itself, promoted this site heavily, put a ton of time and effort into the game that is clearly visible here and as of this point at 2:15am my time, unable to access an account I absolutely need to because of who knows what kind of nefarious reason. All of this because I asked about Ignition's gaming license. Now - Is there really any reasonable person who wouldn't think there's some fire where all of this smoke is billowing from? I certainly didn't think there was anything to be concerned about but after this experience: What reasonable person wouldn't think that asking about Ignition's license didn't create an enormous stir at 2p2?

Again: This is why the US market's dying. This is what even the strongest advocates of the online game go through and I can also say that 2p2 has been banning people in the same fashion for years. Out of the blue, with zero infraction points, just for asking about a site's credibility. Immediately deleting posts, threads, and accounts, covering up huge conversations with people posting hand histories, graphs, and actual videos of botting. Immediately locked/hidden. I've done just about everything I can and my free month of RIO Elite actually begins today. Can anyone legitimately blame me for being about done with this industry at this point, though? I haven't even mentioned the two weeks of madness I went through to get my money off of one site. Just totally let that go. Sit and think about the average person considering online poker in the US here in 2018. Do you really think they'll go through things like this and stick around? Of course not. Botting, collusion, no gaming license, "anonymous poker" models on the site w/o a license, weeks to access your own money, banned from sites you've spent hundreds of hours posting on for asking legitimate questions, etc.

I've never been treated more poorly anywhere than I have on 2p2, though. Nobody's ever been that rude, discourteous, or unfair to me online or off before. I can also say that in 24 years of posting on internet forums, 2p2 is the only one that's ever banned me. As said, they do this to a lot of people and it's always when someone starts questioning a site's credibility. They are literally driving people away from the game and then throwing their hands in the air wondering why there's no "fish at the tables". Further, and I've mentioned this before, they are most definitely no advocate of the players. They clearly defend these sites and have their very own name and even thread for anyone who questions anything about online poker being 100% fair: The Rigtard. You are not allowed to even imply that something might be off about a site without being called a rigtard and having your post shuffled off to their actual "Rigtard thread". There's no other poker community on earth that has a thread like that and when you put all of this together, I think you can see why I'd be upset at them when they could use their leverage and community to pressure sites into not being completely shady and unreliable. Nope. Instead, they're protecting the sites and driving the players away.

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?12672-ProfessionalRakeback-com-is-a-SCAM-and-they-are-promoting-a-SCAM-poker-site-named-Full-Flush-Poker/page2

This in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with me that I just found when I did a quick search of "Bobo Fett twoplustwo" on Google. Looks like this guy's ruffled more than a few feathers over the years and it definitely looks like 2p2 has been accused of some extremely nefarious things over the years. Extremely. I use far, far kinder language to talk about this moderator here on RIO than they do in that thread. You'll see the level of anger he instills in people.

My opinion is they are rigged. Some people are replying thats crazy and why would they do that, but my question is why would nt they do that? How much did the guy pay for bovadas software or platform? Kinda crazy that they made this deal and it allowed for bovada to just create another poker site, but anyways, i want to investigate why they wouldnt keep the licensing that bovada had that at least provides a better regulation. Just bc players win doesnt mean the house isnt dealing winning hands to its own bot on miracle 1 card in the deck to win rivers which happen 1:7 hands i play. People win hundreds of thousands on slot machines, and the lottery for that fact, however neither of these games are giving the players a fair shot, so if i was a gambling guy, lol, id bet my last dollar there are definitely bots that favor the site, even if its only on 20% of hands, its 20% that are GUARANTEED winners to the house and considering the house play with 51/49 odds, im sure they are doing backflips for an extra 20% off the top. I have to wholeheartedly believe all on line sites have bots to a win a percentage of hands. This would account for people that "win" and would still account for the most UNBELIEVABLE run offs or 1card to win, or should i say lose, rivers. Finally, this would clear up things for me if someone, Maybe one of the people that know better can tell me why there are no live dealer hold em sites, not 1 anywhere on line. They have live ultimate poker, which is obviously set to a certain win loss percentage and they have live black jack,. Roulette, baccarat, etc, but why no live hold em? They could easily enough put cameras into the table and your pocket cards be dealt face down, there has to be some reason. So, it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, then hopefully everyone gets their duck sick - quack, quack. Id be willing to bet anyobe that the sites definitely have bots that work in their favor and give them a higher edge of hands. Again i ask, why WOULDNT they?

This site has hundreds of Russian bots playing on it. That's what happens when there are no screen names.

I have just put in thousands upon thousands of hands lately and ...still can't win anything. Whatever you win is taken back by beats, ridiculous board runouts that flip you from 80% equity to drawing dead over and over, guys constantly calling with no odds and still hitting their hands, horrendous all in beats preflop with 80%+ equity. Split pots galore. So many it's beyond remarkable. The rake is too high, the game's are unbeatable, and every hand has 3-4 people in it. Ranges are ATC and there really is just nothing you can do to win any money over time.

I really don't know how much more time I'm going to put into this. It's really just become a total waste of time at this point and it's gone on so long that it's really getting old fast now.

I'm positive these sites aren't legit. Positive. I mean, in the games themselves the players just admit that they're only playing with what they have left on the site b/c it's there and it's not really enough for a withdrawal. Nobody seems to be winning anything.

I told you: I started out crushing the same games I'm playing in and winning a stack for a session is BEYOND IMPOSSIBLE for 2+ months after. It's not variance...it's obvious what it is and extremely disappointing. I don't see how the US market isn't going to just continue to shrink.

WPN's new Blitz Poker is good. No Russian bots so far.

is the blitz poker operational now? I dont see anything when I go to the tab

Of course is rigged !!!

There seem to be a lot of spam posts that need some cleaning up!