Can RIO be bad for your results?

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Can RIO be bad for your results?

Hi all! 

Don't get me wrong. I love RIO and I learn a lot every time I log on, but after I got bumped up to Elite membership things haven't been going my way at the tables. 

I have only played 15000 hands so I know it is a small sample and that it is probably just a bad run/ variance. 

But I started to think about if you guys think it is at all possible that you could suffer from watching videos in here with a high level of theory and thought processes and then go on to apply what you have learned to the low stakes? Could you be too elaborate in your bluffs when you are playing 0.10 - 0.25 PLO zoom for instance? I am not saying that I am better than the limit or even that I think I over think some spots, but could it be hurtful to your game if you watch a lot of elite vids when you are playing the micros? --> If people don't get what you are trying to say with your actions your bluffs aren't gonna work. It is kind of like playing soccer against someone who has never played before. You fake going to the right of the person only to go to the left, but the person doesn't get what you are trying to say with your body language so he goes to his right instead of his left and you end up with a broken nose. 

I know that I am supposed to figure out what stuff from the vids that I can use at my particular level, but I still want to know what you guys think. Can it be bad for you? 

Cheers.

P.S. This is not a whining post. Just want to know what others think about this potential issue.

I'm only down a couple of BIs so don't you worry about me. I'll survive. 


14 Comments

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Chael Sonnen 10 years, 11 months ago

Yes, it's abolutely possible to use moves that will lead you to outplay yourself.
The key to learning is elevating your thought process, and having the ability to ''move down'' in it, while playing lower stakes.
Think about how your opponents are thinking, and exploit that.

Also, there are plenty of midstakes lurkers who write down everything we say. There are plenty of guys who tell me that when playing, but they won't say their RIO nicknames.

Aleksandra ZenFish 10 years, 11 months ago

There has also been a lot of posting in regards to playing lower stake limits and how to play them, with many useful advice

Also very beneficial for PLO10-25 are Toms vids

NocturnalX 10 years, 11 months ago

Thanks Aleksandre. I have watched many of Tom's vids and I'll get back to them once my Elite membership is gone by the end of this month. 

But are you saying that people who play low stakes should focus only on the low stakes vids?

Tom Coldwell 10 years, 11 months ago

Oh for sure misapplying concepts you get from high-stakes vids to low-stakes games can be costly. I remember when I first started watching vids, I tried copying a LAGgy HS guy's ranges preflop and it went terribly.

As Chael said, the key is improving your thought-processes which the Elite vids will help you do. Just be careful to understand the "why" behind what is going on and apply that to your game, not just copy the "what" itself.

NocturnalX 10 years, 11 months ago

Thanks Tom. I know that I have to sort out what plays to use when, when to bet, when to check, when to check raise. I guess I'll just have to play according to the situation and the stakes. Just seems like so much fun when Phil G outsmarts his opponents with a cunning play, you know?

Tom Coldwell 10 years, 11 months ago
Oh, I know. But once you work out how he came to the play he made instead of trying to copy it rote, you can start trying to outsmart your opponents as well.


ZenFish 10 years, 11 months ago

A couple of easy mistakes to make at small stakes, when inspired by high stakes videos:

- Bluff too much without enough reason
- Bluffcatch too  much without enough reason

If you restrict yourself to the obviously good spots (blockers), you should be fine, though. There is a lot to learn from the way good players use blockers to their advantage, and that's applicable at all stakes.

As long as you have a bluff/bluffcatch range at all in a given spot, you can look at certain hands and say with confidence "This hand must be in that range". Phils vids are particularly good for learning that skill. 

midori 10 years, 11 months ago

Yes, because RIO is higher variance.  Make sure you check "run it twice" wherever possible.  Seriously, I looked at the title and thought you were comparing RIO/RIT options :)  

As for this site, I agree with pretty much what others have said ITT.  In short, I would suggest that you try to understand why pros are doing what they are doing.  That way, you will be able to learn their thought process, absorb it, and apply it to your game and make profit, even though that doesn't always mean you will blindly copy their play.  

In the end, playing good poker is more or less equivalent to learning and studying it well, and imo asking "why" in many spots is the crucial part of this learning process.

brutti 10 years, 11 months ago

I'd guess misapplication of concepts as mentioned, I struggled with that before, when I didn't fully understand for example polarized/depolarizing, SD Value and a lot of the elementary concepts (lol).

My experience with RIO so far is totally different.

I've watched a few of Irunlucky's videos took some notes last week, before I headed into the weeked. 


I found a lot of good info there to be working on NL50 and 100 SH, however he is on the tigher-side I would say but that seems to just make wonders at the lower stakes. (Could I request a NL100 6 table video, no zoom?)

To answer the question: I think coaching sites can't be bad for you if you are thinking through the concepts and really understanding what the coachings are trying to teach you in the videos. 

If you don't understand fully whats going on and you start to use a line or approach the game in the "coaches" way then it might hurt you.



flash2717 10 years, 11 months ago

I THINK sometimes we may get a little to inspires by watching these amazing players we get access too.  We see them crushing and how they our playing chess while the others are playing checkers.  But our problem sometimes is we watch these videos and when we sit down to play a session we think we are playing chess and our opponents are playing checkers but in reality we still haven't even learned all the rules to chess yet.  I hope this makes sense.  I think SSNL is a way more ABC style and the HS is more like...   Well Chess.  Hope this helped somehow.

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