Raidion
6 points
I have GTO+ as a solver and do a decent amount of work with it, flagging hands that I don't understand and then doing solver studies with the ranges to better understand where I'm at. I feel like I really am starting to understand where I am at NL50 and have a pretty good idea of GTO play and exploits.
However I'm completely lost in multiway pots, and I don't know how to get better without a solver that can go multiway. Any tips and tricks for getting better? I'm usually against weaker competition when stuff goes multiway, but feel like I'm playing fit or fold waay too often. I've included a sample hand where I'm just totally lost.
PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BB: 85.68 BB
UTG: 182.26 BB
Hero (CO): 141.08 BB
BTN: 111.66 BB
SB: 52.78 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jd Js
fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BTN calls 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB
Flop : (10 BB, 4 players) 8s 6h 5d
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 4.76 BB, BTN calls 4.76 BB, fold, BB calls 4.76 BB
Turn : (24.28 BB, 3 players) Td
BB checks, Hero bets 11.54 BB, BTN calls 11.54 BB, BB calls 11.54 BB
River : (58.9 BB, 3 players) 4s
BB bets 32 BB, fold, fold
BB wins 55.96 BB
May 22, 2022 | 4:39 a.m.
Weird hand, I feel like i never know what to do when I flop a good hand on a flush board.
PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
SB: 68.32 BB
BB: 80.42 BB
Hero (UTG): 227.82 BB
CO: 144.06 BB <--- Villian in the hand, 36/18, AF2, 5% 3bet, 32% fold to cbet, only 500 hands
BTN: 68.48 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Qh Ad
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, CO calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 1.5 BB
Flop : (8 BB, 3 players) 2c Ac Qc
BB bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, CO calls 6 BB, fold
Turn : (21 BB, 2 players) 7d
Hero bets 10 BB, CO calls 10 BB
River : (41 BB, 2 players) Ks
Hero checks, CO bets 29.22 BB, Hero calls 29.22 BB
How would you handle the flop donk bet? I don't feel like I can let him see more cards for free, though I'm thinking the sizing could be smaller? Flop, just trying to charge draws and get value from Ax as well as KdX hands. On the turn, same thing, though he has more 2 pairs in his range to get value from. I didn't want to bet bigger than 1/2 pot to pot control against 22 and flopped flushes. On the river, I felt like he could have a lot of Kd type hands for bluffs with his value hands being 22, A2, AQ, A7, Kd7x, KQ, or any kinda small suited cards that flopped the flush.
He's kinda fishy (38/16), so feel like he could show up with a wider range, and not sure he's bluffing these spots a ton. Thoughts?
Aug. 15, 2020 | 5:43 a.m.
My sims have donking only on low connected flops that really miss raisers range. I think in an practical sense, a check raise is going to fold more than a donk will, and now you have to balance a donk and an x/r range. I do donk, but low single percent and will do it with draws, sets, and a few bluffs on boards like 346ss. Otherwise I'm checkraising.
Aug. 14, 2020 | 6:02 a.m.
WSOP can be softer than PS in NJ, but no HHs, meh take, and terrible terrible software leads me back to Pokerstars.
If you can't trust PS you can't trust anyone imo.
Aug. 10, 2020 | 5:17 a.m.
Donk if a calling station, but you are going to have a hard time building that donking for value range. It's gonna work better against people who don't cbet a lot. I basically get to only play the pot if I feel like it in position against a donk. This also weakens your checking range and x/r range which means I can cbet non donked flops more often against you.
Solvers can show up with donks, but it's often weird low flops, especially when against btn or blinds.
June 22, 2020 | 4:32 a.m.
If it's a loose passive player, bet the flop bigger. If you know you aren't going to get raised off, I probably bet turn and river like half pot. Or maybe check it back river he has a high WWSD and never has enough KQ/AQ,A9cc and it's all QJ two pair hands or missed fds.
June 21, 2020 | 6:05 a.m.
There aren't a lot of hands that beat you here, but that's the problem. I don't feel like JT raises the flop and then calls the 3bet. The only thing that I think could do that would be something like A9, AQ, 99, QQ (but I would expect a 3bet from at least AQ, QQ pf) Then when the turn comes, JT is the nuts, but does he really get there with that hand?
Given the fact that he raises the turn, I feel like it's pretty much down to A9dd. I think I'd probably end up folding this verses an unknown, I'm usually not trying to do hero calldowns against randoms. If he does this with just a Ad blocker the whole way, that blows my mind honestly.
June 20, 2020 | 6:14 p.m.
Hey,
Playing mostly 30NL and 50NL. Games are pretty soft where I'm at, so I end up dealing with a lot of "live" style limp call pots then end up multiway. I've been doing some solver work, and feel pretty comfortable in heads up pots, but feel very lost in mutliway pots, even when in position.
Hand below is an example:
PokerStars - $0.30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
SB: 139.97 BB
BB: 23.93 BB
CO: 96.4 BB
Hero (BTN): 102.53 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ac Qd
CO calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, SB calls 3.5 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB
Flop : (13 BB, 3 players) 9c Ts Kd
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks
Turn : (13 BB, 3 players) 6c
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks
River : (13 BB, 3 players) 4c
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks
SB shows 7s 7c (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 53%, Flop 60%, Turn 79%)
CO mucks 5s Ah (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 11%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
Hero mucks Ac Qd (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 36%, Flop 36%, Turn 21%)
SB wins 12.33 BB
Anyone have any resources for dealing with stuff multi way? My basic strategy is to tighten up, and Cbet primarily dry boards like K96r when IP, especially if I have outs, and when I know the opponents have a exploitable fold to cbet. Are the correct plays here similar to heads up (cbet small with your range advantage, barrel good turns), or is there something I'm missing? I like my heads up game a lot, but find it really hard to improve multiway pots, especially with wide ranges from weak players. Is this something I should just play fairly tight ABC poker and get value with my hands even if that means I just not protecting my equity enough, and letting small pocket pairs reach showdown?
June 20, 2020 | 5:57 p.m.
It's a heck of a lot easier to play KQss on a J72sxx flop than it is 66. Doesn't matter if you have more equity if it's hard to realize it.
April 4, 2020 | 5:40 a.m.
4bet sizing seems bigger than it needs to be. I'm betting flop for like 25% pot (with almost my range) and giving up post that.
Any stats would be really helpful here, what does his 4bet calling range look like? If it's all like 88+, cbet may not be worth it. If he can show up with AT/A9 AND can fold them you have other options.
I think both posts here so far have good points. It's probably a spot to overfold. I didn't even consider a block bet, and while I don't love those (feel like they're hard to balance and exploitable), in this spot it's about perfect. I'm really not too worried about being bluff raised on the river.
Aug. 15, 2020 | 8:01 p.m.